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 Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program

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Smiladon
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Sat May 15, 2010 6:06 am

I saw them eating the Algae Wafers, One of them was on the Zucchini. Hopefully they all get used to the tank Smile

I will keep you all updated.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 pm

Awesome News ..Hope they flourish for you....
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Smiladon
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Sat May 22, 2010 6:04 pm

Its been two weeks. I did a water change a few days ago.

No eggs yet.

I did notice the 2 males? pick their caves and were inside the cave (face in and tail outwards). They were in the cave most of the time. I got curious and picked one of the caves up and looked in, but no eggs. The pleco didn't come out when i picked up the cave.

After the water change, they are not staying like that in their caves. :confused:

Any idea/insight?

They are eating well (i think) since the zucchini gets eaten in a few days. I do occasionally see them eating in the day (with my plant lights on)


Should I move them all to a smaller tank? a 29Gallon (110 liter) maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Mon May 24, 2010 2:39 am

The males will choose their caves and sometimes they will not come out for love nor money as its not only their cave but its a great hiding place. Stick with it. Sometimes the move can be mroe stressful than you think on the fish and they need more time to recover. I recently had a but run in my breeding tanks and unfortunatly i had to put the fish under a bit of stress to make sure thyey were healthy and as such my breeding has slowed significantly. So, im just treating them very nicely, feeding them well and pushing them as all. Once they start breeding on their own i will begin to pair them off and trying to trigger the spawn. Be patient with them.

Also, every time you move the cave or shine a torch into the cave it will discourage the male from breeding. if he does have eggs he may boot them. its best to try and read the behaviour of the fish. this can take some learning but you will get it
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Mon May 24, 2010 3:11 am

Thanks for your response.

I will keep that in mind.

I still have the loaches in the tank though. I will probably move them and other fish to another tank soon so that the plecos can be peaceful. The only problem is that it is a planted tank and they dont seem to like the light too much. They are mostly hiding when the light is on.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Mon May 24, 2010 8:14 am

With the loaches still in the tank it is actually very likely that you have had a spawn and the loaches have eaten the eggs. Loaches are probably the most adapted egg hunters out there. I would be checking the males to see if they have any cuts along their sides as the loaches have nasty spikes that can do lots of damage to the males in the confines of the cave. They will easily get past the male using their spikes and if the male puts up too much of a fight then they can inflict a lot of damage to each other. Not only that but the Loaches are cave dwellers too and will be wanting in those caves. Long and the short of it is...loaches + breeding bristlenose = no babies and injured fish.

Loaches are also nocternal and will have during the day so its not surprising they hide from the light.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Mon May 24, 2010 4:48 pm

OK, I will move the loaches to the other tank. My Angelfish breeding pair in the 155G by themselves are breeding like crazy...I have 9 day old fry in my baby tank and they have eggs again! I thought it would take them at least 3 weeks for them to spawn again... Shocked

The crappy part is that this time they spawned in the filter intake....I dont have a sponge in there either. This filter is really strong too...hopefully they move the eggs again in a few days...

I will move the loaches to the big tank and see how they deal with the eggs...they are gonner anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:21 pm

I've moved all other fish in the tank to my 155G and now the 75G planted is just for the plecos.

One main thing I observe is whenever I turn the lights on in the morning, they all scatter like hell and find cover (darker areas).
From what I saw today, both males are hanging out in the driftwood which is in the middle of the tank (not even close to the caves). Some females are eating zuchinii and others hiding underneath the sponge filter.

I just changed 50% of the water 3 days ago with colder water to try and simulate rainy season...
Is the bright light making them uncomfortable?

I have no idea what to do...help!
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:23 am

Lights on will always scare them, they are nocternal fish and get spooked by the bright light. I will always turn on a room light first before firing up the tank lights just so its not zero to blinding bright issue.

The males will cave up when they feel like it, its not something that you can force. they need to feel like they are ready to spawn, including being in good condition and feeling safe in the tank. this can take weeks for some of the more scardy-cat bristlenose. I wouldn't try doing the cold water changes til the male has truly caved up. If you try before he has then its just a waste of time as they are not ready to spawn. the best you get from doing that is a female forcing a male to spawn and that normally results in booted eggs.

Do you need the light on? I dont have any lights on my breeding tanks, just have the curtains half drawn and the light on the grow out tank and the angel breeding tank. that way they know when its day and night but its always dullish.

the final thing i will throw into the mix here is that bristlenose are shy creatures at the best of times, when they are spawning they are double shy. Imagine you finally get your new boyfirend/girlfriend into your candle-lit bedroom and your mother is looking in the window...no amount of Barry White will keep the mood going! leave them be, give them time to sort out their new home and find their caves. don't spend ages in front of the tank looking at them as it will freak them out. just a quick look when you feed them will let you know where they are at. once the males are caved up, then start to do the rainy season.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:51 am

Unfortunately, the light needs to be on because its a planted tank. The plants will die off if I dont turn on the lights.

Question1:
Should I just move the 2 trios into a 29Gallon tank? I can put this tank underneath my 155G tank stand. It will be total darkness in there. Would that increase their chances for breeding? Tank dimension is 30in Length x 12in depth x 18in height. Keeping the tank clean will not be a problem since there will be adequate filtration as well as frequent water changes.

Question2:
I also read in an online article that the males will breed in caves or underneath driftwood...is that true?
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:49 am

well, i wouldnt move them. the more moving the more stressed they will be and more likely to get sick or worse. I would leave them be. they freak out when the light comes on like all nocternal fish. its their way. Besides 30G is a bit too small for 2 trios. one trio sure, but two is pushing it. Just give them time to settle in and get used to the new tank. they will soon figure out that lights on doesnt mean impending death and will relax a bit.

In terms of places to breed. Males bristlenoses will breed in the oddest locations sometimes. but as a rule they breed in caves. They will breed under driftwood or behind a filter or somewhere only as a last resort and these spawns are often small and unsuccessful. THey much rather caves as they can protect their eggs much easier. put simply, breeders always use caves for a reason, thats where bristlenose breed.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:32 pm

still no breeding or eggs Sad

Am I doing something wrong?

They always have zucchini to eat on and they have 3 caves and one upside down pot (with big enough hole for them to go into)...
I saw the male hanging out in one of the caves for a few days, but now he is not there anymore.

I dont know what else to do.

----

Should I just move 1 trio into my 29Gallon tank?
As I mentioned earlier, the tank would sit inside my 155G tank stand, this essentially means that it will be dark most of the time. I am thinking of putting in driftwood and 2 caves and a powerfilter (with sponge) to provide water current and work as a sponge filter. I also have small HoB filter that I can put in the tank as I cover the intake with sponge.

Would keeping the tank in a very dark environment (with very little amount of light) and away from view help them breed?

-----

Please help!

If you need more info about my 75G tank or the fish. Please let me know.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:07 pm

Is there such thing as too much room in a tank? Could it be there is too much activity in the room in general? Maybe need more caves to choose from? Are they getting enough protein? Switch their diet up some..maybe some raw shrimp? Spinich instead of zucc? Lower the water level for a few days then add the cooler water?
Maybe they just don't like one another.

I'm just throwing things out there. I really hope this gets figured out.
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:20 pm

I have no clue about "too much room" as I am new to BNPs

The only other fish I have in the same tank are 6 little Angelfish and they are always in the middle/top part of the tank.

The plecos have 3 caves and 1 upside down pot - a total of 4 choices to choose from.

They are usually hiding underneath the driftwood and the sponge filter.

I am not sure how keeping the water level low in the tank for a few days will help.

These were from a breeding group and they apparently bred before (according to the seller).
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:13 am

relax mate. you are not doing anything wrong!

Bristlenose are shy and like all other animals will only breed when they feel ready. Unfortunalty that can be deermined by several factors, some of which are out of your control. Now to respond to your concerns.

Firstly, can you give us a break-down of your water conditions? pH, KH, temp, nitrate, nitirite, ammonia...everything you can measure! might be an issue in here Smile

there is never too much much room. Bristlenose are sensitive beings and know where and when others are around. Their entire body is covered with tastebuds so they get to picking up on smells and tastes pretty quick. if they are not hanging around each other, its cos they dont want to.

there is such a thing as having too many caves. I run on at most 2 caves in a breeding tank, normally 1. but that siad i only have one male per breeding tank. This is where having two trios causes issues. In my experence, if there are two suitable caves the male will flip between them, confusing the female and increasing the time to spawn. If there is one cave, and most pre-made breeding caves are perfectly fine, then he has no choice, spends his time looking after it and there is no confusion. However, If you have two males in the tank you need to stop fighting by providing lots of hiding places including caves so here is an issue.

The angelfish may be having an effect too. while BN are fearsome creatures in their own right if they want to be, they are creatures of peace. they like to be left alone and will only attack in defence of themselves or offspring. Anglefish on the other hand are chiclids to their core! pretty to look at, nasty to be around! They are looking for the fight to prove themselves worthy of a mate and a territory. i have seen my angels take on my big orangespot BN (18cms)...i woundn't even take him on! granted the BN won but it still induces stress, and stress leades to empty caves. the position of the cave has an impact too. caves that are sitting in no mans land are not going to be used. In my community tanks i hide the cave in some dense vegetation or under a rock or some driftwood as this means the cave is protected. here is a pic of the entrance to my orangespot's breeding cave. I keep these guys in with angels so the situation is similar



see how the entrance to the cave is not directly visable to the angels above. helps the males feel safer.

Lighting is not as important as we may have made it out to be. My breeding room is lit by sunlight and even tho the curtains ar half drawn, it does get quite quite bright for most of the day, yet i still get breeding. I think the key here is consistancy. kep messing with the light times and the fish will know somethings up. That siad, i wouldnt go having 14hr photoperiods as thats too much. idealy, the tank would be kept rather dark, the ambient light from the room being enough to light it, but with other fish in the tank it is annoying as you want to see the angels. a photoperiod of 6-10hrs would be fine. Lighting is one of the last issues that i would suggest is the problem.

Moving fish around is both a blessing and a curse if you as me. New tank with fresh water can often be a trigger to spawn but it can also cause stress and this can lead to problems. Breeding tanks need to be extremely well cycled. I would set the other tank up and start it cycling. At the very least it can be a hospitial tank or, fingers crossed, a grow out tank Smile but until then it can be a breeding tank. It has been a while since you moved them last so i would feel ok moving them again. once it is cycled, move the male that seems to be around the caves most often, and his cave of choice (only one) and two females (the most gravid looking ones). make sure you feed a good diet, lots of fresh vegies, bit of protein here and there, good quality algae wafers. then, wait.

and wait

and wait

and when they are ready (and i stress this, WHEN THEY ARE READY) will they spawn. you can do all the water changes in the world, feed the best diet, play all the barry in the world, if they dont want to, then they wont.

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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:41 am

Smiladon wrote:

I am not sure how keeping the water level low in the tank for a few days will do

Neither do I. Like I said, I was just throwing things out there.

BNs really seem like they do not follow a set pattern like other fish I've read about when it comes to breeding. I've only been keeping fish for 4 months. And i'm by no means an expert....I'm still very green when it comes to this. My male just disappeared one day and I didn't see him for two or three days. I then discovered that my driftwood has a nice "cave" in it and he was fanning. Next thing I know I have wrigglers . If I can have baybehs then you can. Just like in life when you want it you can't have it...but it'll happen when you least expect it.

By the way...I'm jealous of your tanks cheers Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:27 am

dropping the water level will simualte a drop is barometric pressure, similar to that when a front passes, ususally followed by rain. I have never heard of people using it as a techinique to spawn as the changes may be too great for the BN to deal with. Im not sure how much of a drop would equal a normal front passing...i would suggest very little.

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PostSubject: Re: Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program   Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:40 am

Doug,

thanks a lot for that long explanation. The picture gave me a really good idea. The BNPs are hanging out in the driftwood in the middle of the tank most of the time. The shape is such that I can squeeze a cave underneath the wood so that the entrance looks like its inside the wood.

I put the cave under the driftwood as described above. I think this will increase the chances for them to breed.

I guess I can take out the other caves (leaving 2 in the tank for the males).

I will get the water parameter values and post them up here soon.
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