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 what is the best way to grow out fry?

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jond4261
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:48 pm

As to when they will leave the cave it is all down to the male. I know my egs hatched about 4 days ago and he male still has them all penned up in the cave. The last lot he let out were about 7 days old..!!

cheers

Jon
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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:02 pm

mine are about 2-3 days old right now.
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Vuk
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:13 am

Too be honest I think you have been given some pretty bad advice in this thread.
Current is not needed for fry and is usually more of a negative than a positive. Fighting against current will make them burn more energy and that kind of goes against what you are actually trying to achieve when it comes to rearing fry Suspect

Just because parents may enjoy current doesn't mean the fry should be subject to it, this is true of many catfish species and is one of the reasons some people have problems rearing fry of certain cats.
LG6 is an excellent example, the adults like the current but will be one of the major reasons why people find it hard to raise the fry.

Keep your rearing tank simple.

1)Make sure your tank is cycled. This can be kick started with using an already established filter and water from parent tank.
2)Sponge filter
3)Heater.
4)Small piece of driftwood.
5)Over turned pots etc for shelter.

Keep the tank dimly lit, the less decor in the tank means it's easier to clean without disturbing them.

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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:43 am

thank you for your info. it goes well with what i already have.


i have a small piece of drift wood. 2 fake plants a 40 gallon size sponge filter. 2 caves some elbos from my pvc left overs. some different ID pipe cutt offs. gravel.... heater..

this tank is a 20 gallon long with no light. i use the room light to see in the tank. if i need more light i get a flash light.

tank has been up for about 10 days now and fine. i used a cycled filter from my discus tank.
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Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:59 am

Vuk wrote:
Too be honest I think you have been given some pretty bad advice in this thread.
Current is not needed for fry and is usually more of a negative than a positive. Fighting against current will make them burn more energy and that kind of goes against what you are actually trying to achieve when it comes to rearing fry Suspect

Just because parents may enjoy current doesn't mean the fry should be subject to it, this is true of many catfish species and is one of the reasons some people have problems rearing fry of certain cats.



I strongly disagree with the above statement, especially the first sentence.

Bristlenose do not free swim very often, and they are quite awkward when doing it(so darn cute tho when they do!), they spend 99% of their lives latched to some sort of structure.

Bristlenose fry basically stick to the glass or w/e they can latch on to... they don't use current to"swim" against. The fry benefit from water moving past their bodies while they remain still in more ways than one. They do enjoy current from my experience as indicated in the below picture.



As you can see, they happily gather in whatever flow is available (mine comes from HOB filter). The fry are gathered in the flow and eat algae to their hearts content.

I recommend you get a light to provide a supply of fresh algae.

I have not lost 1 of these fry (100+) yet and they are now 3 weeks old. This thread is much too vague to go into more detail unfortunately... A book would be required to fully explore the subject, fortunately Doug already has taken this upon himself. cheers
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Vuk
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:01 am

Sorry but the "flow" a HOB expels and the flow an internal powerhead expels are 2 different kettles of fish, we are comparing apples and oranges here and I find the HOB comment void....physics would agree.
Nothing more than clean water, quality food, regular water changes and some time are needed to successfully raise 90% of fish species.
Simplicity is the key, no "special" books or added extras are needed.
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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:44 am

well i think that i am going to keep my set up the way it is. i am in the middle of trying to figure out a sump set up for 3 tanks i am planning to stack on top of one another via a custom stand. so 3 breeding tanks plus a sump tank. giving me a little under 100 gallons of water. plenty of water movement with a quiet one 1200 pump rated for 300 GPH.
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:55 am

Vuk, you seem to be deliberatly provocative in your posts.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, of this I'm sure we are all aware. The process that we have recommended on here, the same one which I use is the generally accepted way of doing it. It is this way because we are trying to replicate the general conditions in which bristlenose spawn. As I am sure you are aware as you seem to be well informed, bristlenose breed (generally) in faster flowing streams of the amazon basin during peak flow. hence the advice to increase both flow and oxygen levels.

Are there other ways of doing it, sure, is there ever too much flow, absolutly. You are right in saying that the flow from a HOB filter and internal are different. however, my fry do exactly the same thing in the outfow of an internal filter. If you are having luck raising your fry using your method that is great and we would love to hear about it. However, please don't confuse people who are new to the hobby by accusing us of feeding them mis-information.

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jond4261
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:50 am

As Doug has said
Doug wrote:


It is this way because we are trying to replicate the general conditions in which bristlenose spawn. As I am sure you are aware as you seem to be well informed, bristlenose breed (generally) in faster flowing streams of the amazon basin during peak flow. hence the advice to increase both flow and oxygen levels.

Are there other ways of doing it, sure, is there ever too much flow, absolutly. You are right in saying that the flow from a HOB filter and internal are different. however, my fry do exactly the same thing in the outfow of an internal filter. If you are having luck raising your fry using your method that is great and we would love to hear about it. However, please don't confuse people who are new to the hobby by accusing us of feeding them mis-information.

Here is a picture of my fry in my grow our tank, with which i use a small internal filter on its side (as shown in a previous picture in this thread), to create "a current" which the BN fry really enjoy. There are plenty of spaces in the tank that they could stay out of the current but they like to be in it.

[img][/img]

Yes you can do it other ways but everyone here gives advice on how they see it, the best way to raise/keep your fish whether BNs or guppies is always to try and replicate their natural enviroment to the best of your ability, with whatever the means are at your disposal.

Just my opinion, just my advice, no one has to take it, everyone is entitled to ignore it, I really don't mind. What I don't like is to be told that I/we are giving bad advise as that is not true.

cheers

Jon
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jim.and
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Jons picture shows that Bn fry prefer movement in the water, while in the flow they are actually using less energy, as breathing is made easier, rather then more. I've raised fry with and without flow, booted eggs in a home made fry savers, and I have found those raised with a flow grow quicker, would this be the case if they are using extra energy Question



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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:50 pm

i cant afford an extra filter/power head right now so i have to wait. but im not sure if i want to invest in this power head/filter or just start into my sump set up. the sump will cost a little more but in the long run i will have more filtering and i already have most of the pvc piping.
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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:05 pm

well on a good note. my fry are about 1/2" and are grey. still living in the cave with the male. should be coming out any day now i think.

i still have no idea how many are in there. but the cave walls are so full with fry.
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Carolan
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:29 pm

In my experience:
I have had more success, with raising fry when they have a current, "not like white-water rapids" or anything along those lines, in fact, with my previous batch I was concerned about too much current- as I thought they were extremely fragile and it was detrimental to them, but what I learned was that they did not leave the safety of the cave until they were able to stick to the surfaces well and swim on their own- with my last batch as I have more than 80+, we noticed that the fry where all taking turns going into the the pipe where the bubbles-(not an overly fast current), that the sponge filter has, so a few days ago we decided to put another one in, watching them closely they are on the glass and enjoy the current in the other sponge filter, as well as the current in the regular filter, also compared to my last batch they are growing at a much faster rate.

It was suggested to me by a breeder in Peru; who studies the wild specimens but breeds in his own aquaria to try and avoid taking wild specimens, that trying to mimic the natural habitat was what he found to be most effective, he said that since BN's are a river species a current (he found) to be a necessity in raising healthy adults, he found that it resulted in the fry growing faster as perhaps (in his opinion) they exercised and worked a little bit harder to go from pebble to pebble or branch to branch looking for food)-this he thought made them eat more and was similar to how they lived in the rivers. He suggested it increased their metabolism and therefore they required more food intake but was positive in that they seemed to obtain more nutrients while feeding increased, as it is in the tributaries in his backyard he has tried to mimic the conditions in which they originate.

I am fortunate that he has given me his experiences and when I post I try to relay my experiences and the tips of this man who has been in the hobby for several decades now and learned from his father. My intention is that some of these experiences may be able to help others, I realize that not everything will work for everyone and that is why I am here too learn what works for me. I have tried to mimic in the best possible way I can the natural habitat. It is a process in that my "HOBBY" budget only allows for cheaper alternatives but we try to make it work.

I can say with confidence that when most people post here, this is the same thing they try to do, share and learn. I am still here because I have much to learn from others and I hope that in the future, the positive atmosphere that is conducive to learning and sharing will continue to be so.

Carolan
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Down2Earth
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 pm

well since im so new to this hobby and this type of fish. i will be posting here for a long time i think.

im really into sumps though. i noticed that not a lot of people post about them. but i filter multi tanks with the same sump. this also allows me to set the current flow in and out of the tank.

im in the middle of setting up a sump for my 2x 20 Long tanks.


i have noticed in my main tank i have alot of 2" BN in this tank and they seem to sit on the front glass of the tank. this is where the inlet water current hits its first surface. but the water flow is slow. i made it this way since i plan to put about 6 discus in this tank and they dont like current too much.
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jond4261
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:36 pm

On a personal note I'd welcome it if you would create a thread on how you set your sump up, starting right at the begining, ie what size you chose and why. The equipment that you need to set it up, (ie pipe work, pump, filter media etc..) and how you linked more than one tank.

The reasoning behind me wanting you to do this is quite simply that when we move in to our new house where ever it may be and I then get my 6 footer, I have thought about going down the sump route but don't know the first thing about them or how to set one up. my main concern is are they noisy..?? as my wife can hear a pin drop across a busy street.!!

So any info on setting one up would be very welcome.

cheers

Jon

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barraeagle007
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Sun May 20, 2012 12:18 pm

hi guys if you are looking for the best way to set up a sump look at some of the reefing websites as thay all use sumps i have a sump on my salt water tank and when i have finished setting up my BN set up i will have 18 tanks running off of one sump and one pump i hope this helps you out.
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Sun May 20, 2012 11:36 pm

yeah, reefing forums ae a gold mine for sump info. Generally the freshwater sumps are a little simpler, most people dont bother with a refugium or plants in the sump unlike the reef ones.


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PostSubject: Re: what is the best way to grow out fry?   Today at 8:38 am

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