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 BN NEEDS WOOD?

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Marshallsea
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PostSubject: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:45 pm

Can a BN who has had wood in a tank live without wood for a week?
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:42 pm

maybe, need a bit more info.


How big is the tank? how long has it been running? are there other fish in it? how many bristlenose? if the tank quite clean?

my first answer is yes, not because of the wood, but because a healthy bristlenose should be able to go a week without food anyway. but if there is a good build up of slime etc then its going to have something to munch on. it def wont eat the wood cos its hungry, they rasp away at it and rip little bits up that aid in digestion.

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:37 am

Doug wrote:
maybe, need a bit more info.


How big is the tank? how long has it been running? are there other fish in it? how many bristlenose? if the tank quite clean?

my first answer is yes, not because of the wood, but because a healthy bristlenose should be able to go a week without food anyway. but if there is a good build up of slime etc then its going to have something to munch on. it def wont eat the wood cos its hungry, they rasp away at it and rip little bits up that aid in digestion.
The tank is 20g with 1 BN and 3 platys. It has been running for 7 months. The tank is very clean. About 3 months ago I added the BN and some plants from the plant tank at Petco. The next day my platys were glancing. At first I blamed the BN and treated for ICH. It did nothing so next I blamed the snails that came with the plants and treated for flukes. That did nothing so next I blamed my water. After weeks of wcs doing nothing I changed my water source. That didn't help. Still glancing. Then I read that nemotodes can live on roots so I treated for that and nothing. Then my wife, of all people, reminded me that I put a piece of driftwood in about a week before the BN and plants. I found this wood on Lake Texoma and boiled it. So now Iv'e removed this wood to see if the platys stop glancing and don't want to disrupt the BN.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:31 pm

Hi,if you boiled the wood well enough i can't see it being the problem but you would probably be better obtaining wood from an aquatic store instead of the wild.If your fish are glancing then they have some sort of parasite more than likely.I think you said you saw worms hanging from their gills?They are probably anchor worms and gill flukes can't be ruled out either,also the presence of other parasites or problems need eliminating.

I personaly would be treating for anchor worm and gill flukes and doing an extended treatment time to start with.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:28 am

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,if you boiled the wood well enough i can't see it being the problem but you would probably be better obtaining wood from an aquatic store instead of the wild.If your fish are glancing then they have some sort of parasite more than likely.I think you said you saw worms hanging from their gills?They are probably anchor worms and gill flukes can't be ruled out either,also the presence of other parasites or problems need eliminating.

I personaly would be treating for anchor worm and gill flukes and doing an extended treatment time to start with.
Thank you for the reply, this has been driving me crazy for over 3 months. For a long time I thought it was a parasite. I treated for ich once with QUICK CURE and twice with 89f for two weeks each time. I treated with GENERAL CURE for flukes once with an extra treatment and once with 3 extra treatments over the dosage on the box. All I have read says that parasites on fish for over 3 months would either have killed all of the fish or it would be obvious they had parasites. I have looked at them through a magnifying glass for extended periods. There are no sores, lesions, bumps or any kind of bug. They eat, piddle around, do their normal fish duties, females are big, the male is horny, they breed like rabbits, they have vibrant colors, they never gasp for air, become lethargic,or stay on bottom. Out of a long list of symptoms for a long list of parasites, the only symptom they show is the glancing. I have done countless water changes, bought a second API liquid test kit to verify water condition. I have so many plants I'm about to have to start throwing some in the trash. And after I thought about it I remembered that I had the log in a roast pan in the oven as it was too big for a pot and wasn't fully underwater at any time. I'm out of ideas. If it's not the log I am totally lost. Any feedback and ideas are more than welcome. I would hate to do it but at some point I will have to exterminate and start over. P.S. as for the 2 dead with a worm in the gills, the two died very fast and that's the last I saw of them over 3 months ago. If the worms were still in my tank they would have destroyed my tank. Maybe the log has minerals or metal that bothers them. Lake Texoma has never been accused of being a clean lake. I'm grasping at straws.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:17 pm

Hi,Good idea to get rid of the wood if you aren't happy with it and get some from an aquarium store.You can't see gill flukes without a microscope so if you saw those worms with the naked eye they must of been anchor worms.It can take several months for anchor worms or any signs of them to become visible on fish and with the others already having them it seems like too much of a coincidence that these fish are now glancing.I still recommend treatment for anchor worms to be sure.I know you have treated for flukes already but try treating for anchor worms for an extended period.

Make sure you remove any charcoal/carbon from filters/tank before treating.

I know it can get disheartening when you have an ongoing problem that you can't seem to solve as i have been there recently myself but keep on and don't give up.The fish deserve to live and get better and you can do it if you just keep on.We are here to help you find the problem and to support you through it.

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:17 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,Good idea to get rid of the wood if you aren't happy with it and get some from an aquarium store.You can't see gill flukes without a microscope so if you saw those worms with the naked eye they must of been anchor worms.It can take several months for anchor worms or any signs of them to become visible on fish and with the others already having them it seems like too much of a coincidence that these fish are now glancing.I still recommend treatment for anchor worms to be sure.I know you have treated for flukes already but try treating for anchor worms for an extended period.

Make sure you remove any charcoal/carbon from filters/tank before treating.

I know it can get disheartening when you have an ongoing problem that you can't seem to solve as i have been there recently myself but keep on and don't give up.The fish deserve to live and get better and you can do it if you just keep on.We are here to help you find the problem and to support you through it.

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Ok then, treatment for anchor worms it is. I don't use carbon except when removing meds. When I put carbon in how long does it take to remove meds, or is there any way to know? Thank you Bristlenoses.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:05 pm

Hi,I never use carbon or charcoal and never have.If i have to medicate i just let the meds run their course out of the water with my routine water changes and gravel vacs after the course of meds are finished.If you prefer to remove meds that may of been added before you start with new treatment and not much time has passed since you added them then go ahead and use carbon.Carbon will remove meds quite quickly depending on your turn over rate.Most chemicals are removed on contact with the carbon so it can be done quite quickly but there are a few that take longer and a few that carbon can't remove.I would say put the carbon in and wait a few hours then you should be good to go.


A lot of meds will kill off your good bacteria so this may need to be rectified or carefully monitored aswell.

Goodluck and keep us informed as if this doesn't work we can look into other things.

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,I never use carbon or charcoal and never have.If i have to medicate i just let the meds run their course out of the water with my routine water changes and gravel vacs after the course of meds are finished.If you prefer to remove meds that may of been added before you start with new treatment and not much time has passed since you added them then go ahead and use carbon.Carbon will remove meds quite quickly depending on your turn over rate.Most chemicals are removed on contact with the carbon so it can be done quite quickly but there are a few that take longer and a few that carbon can't remove.I would say put the carbon in and wait a few hours then you should be good to go.


A lot of meds will kill off your good bacteria so this may need to be rectified or carefully monitored aswell.

Goodluck and keep us informed as if this doesn't work we can look into other things.

Bristlenoses Very Happy d

I got meds but I have not used them . 2 days after removing the wood, the platys stopped glancing, knock on wood, no pun intended. That's great news after months of suspecting and trying to fix everything. ( Except the wood.) Had I kept a day to day journal, I could have read back and remembered the wood months ago. But it has caused an issue with the BN. I put some store bought driftwood in but the BN hasn't taken to it and has not eaten wafers or vegs since I took her log. She just hangs on the glass, she used to spend the majority of her time under the log. She's been short tempered with the plays when they get close, although that may be normal. Could she be that mad about losing her log?
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:00 pm

She probably doesn't feel as safe and secure now and feels exposed and stressed.Have you put the new wood in the same place and can she get under it to hide?


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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
She probably doesn't feel as safe and secure now and feels exposed and stressed.Have you put the new wood in the same place and can she get under it to hide?


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Yes, I got a piece that forms a cave when laid on the bottom. Maybe she'll relax in a while.

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:09 am

This is strange. After removing the wild collected wood the Platys stopped glancing but their behavior also changed. The breeding became more efficient. The females became more receptive. I boiled and put in the new piece of Mopani. 2 days later(6 days since the old wood was removed and the Platys stopped glancing) the water darkened and the glancing came back I did a 25% water change and the glancing stopped but the females went back to being relatively unreceptive. What could be happening? I thought tannins were harmless. Maybe a PH problem? My tap is PH-7.5. Tank PH - 7.5 but that may not be accurate since I've done several water changes in several days.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Hi,I have done some research for you as i don't keep any livebearers.Apparently wood in the aquarium can adversely affect them.They like to be in water that is hard and alkaline and water with wood in is more soft and acidic.So this is more than likely the reason.I know some people do keep them together but I suppose it depends on the tank size and a lot of other factors but i would say this is what your particular problem is as they seem fine without the wood.

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:01 am

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,I have done some research for you as i don't keep any livebearers.Apparently wood in the aquarium can adversely affect them.They like to be in water that is hard and alkaline and water with wood in is more soft and acidic.So this is more than likely the reason.I know some people do keep them together but I suppose it depends on the tank size and a lot of other factors but i would say this is what your particular problem is as they seem fine without the wood.

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Thank you so much, Bristlenoses. I've been chasing this problem for months. My plan now is to donate the Platys back to the LFS since the water is not right for them. The BN trumps the Platys and the wood stays. I think this also explains why the Platys showed problems and the BN always appeared fine. I did some digging and I think a big group of Lemon Tetras would be a better fit. If this doesn't sound right , let me know. And once again, thank you , you're a lifesaver. I have asked many many people about my problem, you're the one who finally got to the bottom of it. P.S. I guess tannins are not always harmless. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:09 am

Hi,you are very welcome,I hope that will be the end to your problems and goodluck.Just a note on the mopani.It looks great and is good for bristlenoses and the water but it is a much harder wood than bog wood,When you are able to it may be a good idea to get a piece of bog wood aswell.Or if you still have the other piece to put it back.Please keep us informed as to how things go.

All the best

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:27 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,you are very welcome,I hope that will be the end to your problems and goodluck.Just a note on the mopani.It looks great and is good for bristlenoses and the water but it is a much harder wood than bog wood,When you are able to it may be a good idea to get a piece of bog wood aswell.Or if you still have the other piece to put it back.Please keep us informed as to how things go.

All the best

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Is the mopani too hard for the BN to chew on?
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:58 pm

No the mopani is fine for them.It's just in my experience mine prefer bog wood and i always put it down to it being softer.I keep both types of wood in my tanks as i like the look of mopani but my bristlenoses just seem to prefer the bog wood.It was just a suggestion more than anything.


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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:05 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
No the mopani is fine for them.It's just in my experience mine prefer bog wood and i always put it down to it being softer.I keep both types of wood in my tanks as i like the look of mopani but my bristlenoses just seem to prefer the bog wood.It was just a suggestion more than anything.


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I like the idea of softer wood as my BN hasn't been eating lately. She'll get on the mopani but doesn't eat it as aggressively as the old stuff. I haven't seen her poop in a while and she appears to be a little swollen today. Could this be because she wants to eat her old wood? Any ideas?
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:36 pm

I would get her a piece of bog wood just incase she prefers it.You may of already said but what do you feed her?


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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:40 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
I would get her a piece of bog wood just incase she prefers it.You may of already said but what do you feed her?


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NLS algae wafers and occasional vegs.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:49 pm

If she is off her food and seems a little bloated give her some deskinned peas first of all and then try giving some cucumber or courgette and giving the wafers a miss for a few days.



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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:52 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
If she is off her food and seems a little bloated give her some deskinned peas first of all and then try giving some cucumber or courgette and giving the wafers a miss for a few days.



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Will do. Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:21 pm

Marshallsea wrote:
Bristlenoses wrote:
If she is off her food and seems a little bloated give her some deskinned peas first of all and then try giving some cucumber or courgette and giving the wafers a miss for a few days.



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Will do. Thank you.
Things have taken a turn for the worse. She hasn't moved in 36 hours, didn't eat the peas, is more bloated and now her eyes are bulging. I must have caused this by stressing her out by removing the wood trying to help the Platys.Is there anything I can do or is she too far gone?
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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:08 pm

Hi,that doesn't sound good at all i am afraid to say.Stress can cause bloat but there are a lot of other things that cause it.I am gonna ask a few questions here instead of writing loads of posts.I hope that is o.k and that you can answer them as much as possible.You may of told me some of it already but as i talk to lots of people about similar issues i can't always remember details of each.

Tank size?
How long has tank been up and running?
Water test results?
What filtration do you have?
How often do you water change?
How often do you clean tank?
Do you have gravel?
If you have gravel how often do you gravel vac?
What food was you feeding the platies?
How much food do you normaly feed the bristlenose?
Are there any plants in the tank?

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PostSubject: Re: BN NEEDS WOOD?   Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi,that doesn't sound good at all i am afraid to say.Stress can cause bloat but there are a lot of other things that cause it.I am gonna ask a few questions here instead of writing loads of posts.I hope that is o.k and that you can answer them as much as possible.You may of told me some of it already but as i talk to lots of people about similar issues i can't always remember details of each.

Tank size? 20 gallon
How long has tank been up and running? 9 months
Water test results?Ammonia-0 nitrites-0 nitrates 15-20ppm ph-7.5 gh-7 kh-5
What filtration do you have? Topfin-20 hob, Aquatech 5-15 hob
How often do you water change?With history of Platy glancing it's been 3x a week,last 4 months
How often do you clean tank? I don't actually clean tank but I keep gravel well vacuumed
Do you have gravel? Yes
If you have gravel how often do you gravel vac? 1x a week for last 4 months
What food was you feeding the platies? NLS small formula pellets , 2x a day
How much food do you normaly feed the bristlenose? NLS algae wafers 3-4 times a week.
Are there any plants in the tank? So many plants I set up 10g tank for plant overflow.

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