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 Need some advice guys

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aidenh48
Juvenile Bristlenose
Juvenile Bristlenose


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Age : 34
Location : Boston Ma. USA
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PostSubject: Need some advice guys   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:32 pm

I have a brown sub adult female that I have had since she was an inch. About 3-4 months ago I noticed she is real fat but it doesnt look like she is gravid, and kind of looks like it may be blout. The only thing throwing me off is, it's been atleast 3.5-4 months since I noticed it, she has not got any bigger or smaller, she is a ferocious eater, acts completely normal, and poops all the time just like the rest of them. Now, I have never delt with blout but I have done my research, and I can't find anything saying that a fish with blout would have the condition stay consistent over a period of time. Either they get better, or get worse, or die. I tried to post up a pic of her up with this post, but I cant figure out how to get them into my photo gallery to put them in posts. I just got a new iPad mini to replace my old notebook, and I have been able to attach pics to anything at all yet. Anyways, anybody have any ideas?? From her belly she looks fat almost like she swallowed a marble, from top view she looks super gravid, and from a side view she looks like she almost has a hunched back. Again she seems like and acts like a 100% healthy pleco, except for her appearance, and has normal stool.
???????????????????????????????
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Sarahdd
Large Bristlenose
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Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:26 am

Dropsy perhaps???

Sarah

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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:49 am

pics would help

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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi,if you can get your pics onto photobucket you will be able to copy and paste the link here.


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aidenh48
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:47 pm

Alright let me work on getting the photos up. I understand its real hard to figure it out without pics. I would have included with the original post, but let me figure it out.
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aidenh48
Juvenile Bristlenose
Juvenile Bristlenose


Male Number of posts : 79
Age : 34
Location : Boston Ma. USA
Job/hobbies : fish keeping, fishing, and rc cars
Thank You Points : 2
Registration date : 2013-02-10

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:34 pm

I just took a video of her, because I couldn't get any good still shots. It's about three mins long but watch the whole thing cause she moves around enough that you can almost get complete view of her. Lets see if this works. I had to put it up on you tube then copy the link and paste here. Let me know if it worked.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOJ-2XiCpEo
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi,I have tried a few different ways but can't watch the video at all.



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aidenh48
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:40 pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=6aeYhi4JxBM

Try this one.
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Sarahdd
Large Bristlenose
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Female Number of posts : 223
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Location : USA
Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:47 am

aidenh48 wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=6aeYhi4JxBM

Try this one.

Hi, I was able to view the video, unfortunately I'm not comfortable rendering anything more than a very uneducated opinion.

At first, I though she just looked gravid but looking longer I'm not so sure. She certainly acts healthy, active and tucking into her food just fine. But as you say I'm suspicious of her overly bloated look. I can't tell from the video if her scales have the classic "pine cone" look associated with dropsy, or if it's just her coloring, perhaps you can look closely and tell if they do.
She's small, but does look old enough to be gravid to me.

Hopefully others will be able to see the video and help you.

Sarah
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi Sarah,what browser are you using as Firefox wont allow me to view the video and i have also tried I.E without success.



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Sarahdd
Large Bristlenose
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Female Number of posts : 223
Age : 60
Location : USA
Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:16 pm

Bristlenoses wrote:
Hi Sarah,what browser are you using as Firefox wont allow me to view the video and i have also tried I.E without success.



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I'm actually on a Kindle, so it's Silk, and I tried Dolphin and that worked as well. I have Firefox and IE on my desktop, I'll give that a try and see if I can figure out the problem or a workaround.

Sarah


**No luck with Firefox or IE either. They go to it, but won't play it from the link. I imagine it must have been uploaded from a mobile device, phone perhaps, and that may be the problem.
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:45 pm

O.K Sarah thankyou very much,I appreciate it.



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aidenh48
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:06 pm

Hey guys. Yeah, I'm as stumped as everyone I have asked. She is a tad over 2in long, so I don't know if she is gravid, or old enough to be. I have had her for about 6-7 months and she was an inch or so long when I got her. How young can they breed? As far as the scales Sarah, that is just her color pattern. Her scales are normal. It is driving me nuts not knowing if something is wrong, or she IS super gravid, or what! But like I said, she is a 100% normal pleco, and as you can see from the video she eats great, and shoves her way right in with my big male and females to get her fill!
Bristlenoses... If they is another way I can try to post the video let me know. I have read lots of your stuff, and would love your opinion. Sarah, you have a lot of good advice to, and thanks for you honest reply. Hopefully I will get more people to take a look, and hopefully I can get an answer! I mostly want to know if she needs some type of treatment, if its something serious, and if its just an odd ball female, then I can live with that, I just won't breed her!
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Sarahdd
Large Bristlenose
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Female Number of posts : 223
Age : 60
Location : USA
Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:14 pm

Hi, sorry I couldn't be more help.
With nothing more to go on, I am going to put something out to see what you and others might think.
Do you ever fast your fish? At least for a day or two?

I have 3 Synodontis catfish, they are ravenous feeders of both meat and vegetable matter. They have notoriously large, bloated looking bellies after a good feed which slims somewhat a few hours after a meaty meal. With regular access to veg matter however they will retain that belly until I cut them off. (I wouldn't even give them so much, but there is a CAE, three SAE, and common pleco in the tank that crave their veg.)

I'm suggesting you fast that tank for a couple days (or more) and see if she slims down at all. From the video you may actually have a compulsive eater on your hands, and vegetable matter is very bulky. One of the catfish I referred to will still shred and demolish the veg in the tank even if already stuffed to "the gills"
She/he is the most bloated looking of the bunch.

Sarah
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Sarahdd
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Female Number of posts : 223
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Location : USA
Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:37 pm

Here's a pic of the three catfish, you can clearly see the one swimming upsidedown (a normal behavior clown ) looks like it is about to explode. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the fish, except it's mental about food. The other two are gluttons, but this one is obsessed. I don't know if that is what is going on with your BN.
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:11 pm

Hi Aiden,I am not sure how to advise you to post it so i can view it.What device was the vid taken on?



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Silvashadow
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm

For those who can't see the video, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOJ-2XiCpEo
(Take out the 'm' at the front of the link)

At first glance even I would say she's gravid, but I have dealt with bloat and the underneath of her looks a little too swollen. But bloat can kill a fish pretty quickly and when they stop eating it's pretty much down hill from there. You say she's been like this for quite a while? Then she can one of a few things:
Gravid, over-eating, has worm/parasite, egg block (there is a term for it but can't remember) or something else entirely. I would do as Sarahdd has suggested first and fast the fish for a couple of days. Do not feed them anything, and don't worry as fish can go a few days without food just fine. If that doesn't change anything then try medicating the tank with an internal parasite medication. If she still hasn't shrunken a bit perhaps try triggering a spawn.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck Smile
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Sarahdd
Large Bristlenose
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Female Number of posts : 223
Age : 60
Location : USA
Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:45 pm

I though about egg binding, but it seems too prolonged. My understanding was that they either absorb, expel, or succumb within weeks if egg bound.

Sarah
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aidenh48
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:18 am

Bristlenoses...... I shot it on my iPad mini.
Silvashadow and Sarah...... Yes, she has been like this for 3-4 months, and I believe closer to the four month mark. She is a shy pleco pleco. She will come out when she can't see anyone near the tank, and sometimes even runs and hides when other fish get to close when she is out and about. Even to shoot the video clip, I had to be very still and move the iPad slowly to not spook her and when she did see me she took off under the drift wood. Because of her shyness, she eats the least out of all the Plecos I have. She will eat every time I put food in for them, but if someone is near the tank, she won't come out unless you are still or move away from the tank. When I sit back away from the tank, she eats well, everytime.
I just got done treating the tank for the ich outbreak I had. I really want to try and give them a little time to recover from the stress of that before I stress them out again. Also because I just treated for the white spot, I would rather not treat the tank now, until I find out for sure (if I find out for sure) if it is a internal parasite. Don't get me wrong, if you knew for sure it was a parasite, I would treat right this second! But for this moment in time, I don't want to risk my other fish by jumping into another treatment regiment until I get a better idea of what this is.
The big long fin albino male, and the two big albino short fin females in the video just spawned about two weeks ago. The brown female was in the tank when I started triggering the trio to breed, and obviously she did not drop eggs. Is she even mature at her size? My two big females just started spawning, and they are a tad older, and bigger then my brown female.
I will try fasting her for now and see what happens, but still looking for an answer, or other ideas while I starve her for a couple days. Thanks again guys, and anyone else. Please keep info coming!!
P.S. my name is mark, I use my sons name as my I'd.
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Sarahdd
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Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:19 am

Hi Mark!

Two or even three or four days without food is not even CLOSE to starving your fish, being coldblooded gives them a huge advantage in that they can go without food for long periods, much like reptiles. Remember, a lot of males don't eat for weeks when they guard spawns.

Many fishkeepers, myself included, routinely fast their adult fish once every week or two. It is believed to be good for them, since constant access to virtually unlimited amounts of food they don't really even have to search for isn't terribly natural. It's also good for the tank as the fish will search out hidden bits they wouldn't normally bother with.

Anyway, I hope your female is either just miss piggy or releases a boatload of eggs soon. I can understand your reluctance to face another treatment.

Sarah
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:21 am

Hi,Thanks to Silvashadow I was able to view the video and I have studied it a few times.In my opinion she is very gravid.It would be very helpful to see her underside though.


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aidenh48
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:23 pm

Sarah, I didn't mean anything by saying "starving my fish". I know they can go quite awhile with out eating. I was just using a different word then fast, and didn't mean anything by it! I as well every other week or so won't feed them for a day or two, as I have heard that it gives them a chance to catch up on digestion. I didn't mention it before cause, I don't really do it on any type of schedule, plus it isn't done frequent enough that it wouldn't stop her or any of the others from simply getting fat. Starting last night they will fast for three or four days.
Bristlenoses, I thought she was just gravid too, but as the months ticked by, she stayed the same. She is in with a lonely male albino too, so I don't know why she hasn't dropped by now! Could it be that I have my big albino trio that are spawning in the tank, and only the two sf albino females have been breeding with the long fin male, and the other adult sf male isn't ready to spawn, and maybe the trio won't let her breed with the proven LF male? Or would the LF fin albino male let her into his cave even though the 2sf albino females, and the LF albino male are already a proven trio?
Anyway I will try to get either a video of her belly, or a still pic of her belly. Both are hard as she is shy and only really stays out long enough is when feeding.
Mark
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Bristlenoses
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:34 pm

Have you got a tank that you could put her into with a male ? Or a tank you could put the rest of the females into so that she is the only female in the tank just to see.

If you can get pics of her underside that would be very helpful so i hope you can manage it Smile

It is possible that the more dominant females are breeding and she isnt getting a chance.

Also she could just be extremely fat but i am still tending to think gravid.



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Sarahdd
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Female Number of posts : 223
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Job/hobbies : Breeding DD, Koi, Blue & wild blood Angelfish, Purple Moscow Guppies, & BN. Catering to 3 cats, 1 dog, & 1 husband.
Humor : Messing with the dog and the husband- the cats are on to me.
Thank You Points : 21
Registration date : 2012-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:52 pm

Sorry Mark! I thought you were stressing about withdrawing food so soon after the ich treatment- I didn't mean to sound condescending (which rereading my post, I realize I did). Again I apologize. Embarassed
Happy to hear you fast your fish as well, and for this situation 3 or 4 days is probably smart.

Hoping for the best, Sarah
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aidenh48
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Registration date : 2013-02-10

PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:06 pm

Bristlenoses, I have just set up a 40gal breeder about a week or so ago, but it has not completely cycled yet. The tank is almost there, but not quite. I put a few of my Cory cats in there today and they are doing fine, but with the hope to speed it up. I seeded the tank with a few huge cupfuls of gravel from my 90, and a filter pack from one of the hob filters from my 90, but still not there yet. The water is.... Ammonia .5ppm, nitrites about 15-20ppm, and nitrates are 20-25 ppm, ph 70-72. I do have an established 20gal long with another breeding group of bn in it. I do have a 10gal I could put her and the sf albino male in but the 10gal isn't set up at the moment. Do you think I should set up the 10gal, wait for it to cycle, and put the pair in? Or would that be too long? I'm gonna actually set it up anyhow, for a hospital tank, just haven't got around to do it yet.
I am working on the belly shots of the brown female, but probably won't happen till after I fast them for a few days. My big albino females are ready to go again, and are fatter with eggs then the last spawn, and hanging around the cave entrance.
Sarah, no worries! I didn't want you to think I was meaning that way either! I'm just used to saying starve in stead of fast, because my 30 yr old, 96lbs wife, is always talking about a new diet or always exercising and I give her a hard time saying she is starving herself for no reason and she always says "no mark I'm fasting" in her nag voice! Lol! ( we do have a great loving relationship, I just being a male give her a hard time!). So no problem, Sarah! You have been giving me great advice since I joined this forum, and I'm very thankful for your honest opinions! Keep em coming!!
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice guys   Today at 2:19 pm

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