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 super red ancistrus

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colink
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: super red ancistrus   Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:03 pm

been wondering for a little while if anyone has managed to breed the super reds yet, or is it just bikerman so far.out of the 6 i have looks like ive got 2 male and 4 females ,colin.
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816johnv
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:09 pm

He is the only one i know of but im sure it wont be long before someone else does.... if you do have 2 males and 4 females thats a nice group you have and im sure it wont be long before they spawn for you
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Kurosaki J
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:53 am

I'd be getting some more imported from germany so you can diversify the gene pool in the UK , sounds like everyone has fish over there from the same lineage - could be a disaster waiting to happen.
cheers J
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Angi-N-Wayne
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:57 am

I'm hoping to get some longfin reds this year .......... well, if things go the way I hope I will lol!
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colink
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:31 pm

hiya if they all came from the same gene pool how do we manage to get new blood into the uk , or do we try and breed with normal browns and try and improve the blood line,im sure i read some where that it maybe possible. colin.
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:02 pm

Kurosaki J wrote:
I'd be getting some more imported from germany so you can diversify the gene pool in the UK , sounds like everyone has fish over there from the same lineage - could be a disaster waiting to happen.
cheers J

ive got six from germany and four off bikerman but the four from bikerman just dont seem to be growing the german ones are getting up to breeding size but im not going to breed from them as i would say they are siblings
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:06 pm

hiya deano do you know the sexs of te ones from germany yet cheers colin.
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deano
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:14 pm

5 males 1 female
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deano
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:17 pm

Angi-N-Wayne wrote:
I'm hoping to get some longfin reds this year .......... well, if things go the way I hope I will lol!

didnt know their was such a bristlenose out their maybe i should pair a couple of red males with some long fin fems and see what happens lol!
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:23 pm

i do remember reading somewhere that you could improve the red blood line by breeding with a brown and crossing back , but for the life of me i carnt remember where i read it. did you import straight to yourself with the ones from germany deano ,colin.
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:28 pm

no mate through a lfs that my son works at
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:04 pm

cheers deano for the info will have to see if i can get some imported in sunderland ,colin.
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816johnv
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:41 pm

Steve (Bikerman) told me that the Reds where spawned from a pair of Common BN for some reason the fry turned out Red would be good to know if this was actually the case
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:55 pm

found this http://www.tiere.de/Fische/Ancistrus-Red-Fire%252C-A.-Violett%252C-A.-Schleier%252C-unbekannt_530226.html
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:03 pm

looks like the link doesnt work try searching for red fire lda16 some german sites should come up colin.
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Amber
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:24 pm

I have heard different possible origins for the super reds. One was that they appeared in a spawn from 2 normal browns, and the other that they were derived from calico. I don't know which is true.

There is a photo of a super red variant on PC in their Cat-E-Log section (A. cf cirrhosus) and that photo shows a fish that is red with some dark pigmentation like a young or very lightly marked calico. If that photo is correctly labeled it suggests the calico theory of origin.

All the other photos of super reds that I have seen show clear red fish without a smattering of dark pigment, though it would be natural to photograph the fish that are closest to the ideal.......

I have heard that super red usually breeds true, though on occasion they will throw out brown. I don't know if this means normal brown fry that are clearly browns from the beginning or something like a heavily marked calico. I figure a calico with a lot of dark pigment could be mistaken for a normal brown in the same way the L-144 is sometimes lumped with and sold as albino. You have to look closely and know what to look for sometimes to differentiate some of the colors.

The actual genetics would make a difference if you plan to out cross to another color for improvement or genetic diversity. If super red is the result of a single gene an out cross should work just fine, on the other had if it is the result of the interaction of multiple genes, which seems more likely IF the calico theory is true, then you could have a difficult time regaining and maintaining the clear red color after and out cross.

Speaking as someone who has successfully bred various breeds of livestock for show and utility for over 40 years, inbreeding is not in and of itself a bad thing. Almost all successful livestock breeders utilize line breeding which is just a modified form of inbreeding. What inbreeding does do is increase the likelihood that recessive traits will be bought out. Some recessives we value, like those for an unusual color, some are not so obvious and may affect structure, metabolism or internal organs in a negative way. Inbreeding can not bring out what isn't already there, it just increases the chance that those recessives will be expressed.

I am not advocating inbreeding, as it would never be my first choice if other options were available, just trying to put it in a balanced light as the term carries a lot of prejudice.
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Curby
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:00 pm

interesting point you have there..also a good thoery....... Smile

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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:00 pm

It would be great to know the correct answer to this very intrested to know... i like the Super reds and im currently trying to get hold of some to have a go at breeding
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Amber
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:42 pm

Well I did a lot of searching on the topic super reds and found more photos. Several of the pictured fish did indeed have some minimal dark pigment, most commonly in or near the tails, and on the leading edge of the pectoral fin. Also the photos I thought were clear red fish often did not show the entire fish, so they may not have been as clear as I had assumed.

I still don't know anything for a fact, because the number of times something is repeated doesn't make it true, but most of the explanations for their origin was that they were derived from calico.

I would love to hear of actual breeding results from those of you that are fortunate enough to have super reds. Did they throw browns and if so, were they normal browns or dark calico or something else?
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durhamdiscus
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:58 pm

Does anyone have any idea what I could expect to pay for unsexed 2" super reds please ?

Steve
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deano
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:43 pm

i would say good money u pay anything from a tenner for 2 to 3cm ones and their not the fastist growing ancistrus and not often seen for sale at this price ive seen them advertised at £40 each dippends on how much people are willing to pay. ive just been offered £200 for six at 31/2 inch and turnd it down keep your eye on ebay theirs going to be 4 on their soon Very Happy
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durhamdiscus
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:40 pm

Thanks Deano

I will keep my eye on Ebay.

Regards Steve
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simosprp
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:47 pm

when are theses going to be put on ebay and size and so on ?
i think the best way to get some of these would to be a few of us who are very interested get some from a supplier , i know that a place called rare aquatics will be able to get some but i can imagine the price will be through the roof in profit for them selves.

were as if a good group of us placed an order we could get alot more fish for our money but i wouldn't know how to go about this
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colink
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:21 pm

hiya when rare aquatics had some reds in the were priced at £40 each i think the size was 2cm -3cm in size colin.
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simosprp
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PostSubject: Re: super red ancistrus   Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:30 pm

that is an insanely high price for them at that size , what a total rip of merchant , and for a fact they will have been brought in less than a tenner .

what do others think ? over priced or what ?
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