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 Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes

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aidenh48
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PostSubject: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:02 pm

Ok guys, I know I have read sometime in the last month about how albinos come about, and I believe it was written by bristlenoses but not sure. I had a brief talk with Sarah about what the outcome would be if a red/albino pair bred. So, who has the insight on this? I also want to get an idea if a red/calico pair bred, and a calico/albino bred, what kind of fry would we wind up with?. Also, how do color morphs happen?
Mark
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:54 pm

Hi Mark,
I will try to explain what i can in as simple terms as i can.Firstly though i wouldn't advise crossing reds with any other colour as you will more than likely lose the red altogether in the resulting fry.It also depends on weather your breeding adults are pure for their colour or crosses themselves.Lets assume for now that they are all pure bred and not crosses.

If you crossed a red and a calico (remember we are assuming they are pure breds) The results would probably be all calico fry but commons are also a possibility.

If you crossed a red and an albino.I would of predicted mostly albinos with the possiblility of a few with dark eyes (going on the info that reds came from albinos) but this cross has been known to produce all commons.So this makes me think reds didnt come from albinos.

If you bred a calico and an albino (assuming they are pure breds) The fry would be all calico.

Of course this is not 100 percent set in stone as not many people have done a lot of these types of crosses or documented the outcome.This is going on what is the probable and most likely outcome.

If your adults are not pure breds then unless you know their genetic background or at least what colour their parents were then it is not so simple to predict the outcome except where albinos are concerened.Albinos are the most recessive of genes and so an albino must be pure albino.

My advice is to breed red to red if you want reds.


I hope this is not too complicated and remember the predictions are not set in stone.



Bristlenoses Very Happy




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aidenh48
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:42 pm

Thanks Bristlenoses for clearing that up. I was talking with Sarah about my reds. I am keeping my reds together to breed, but was thinking about adding a albino female to their tank, and form a red, red, albino trio. Now Sarah said that she wouldn't do that because the red male might decide to only spawn with the albino female, and dump the red female. I don't want that to happen, but was still curious of what the outcome would be with different strains. I do not know anything really about the reds parents. I don't keep and do the breeding to make money, I do it for the love of the hobby! I do want to end up with some red fry, so I can grow out another pair of females and a pair of males to spawn with other strains down the road while keeping my red m/f proven pair.
What about the long fin genes, and so on. Like my long fin male, spawned with my 2short fin females, and the fry so far look to be short fin. How does that work?
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ktk05
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:00 pm

Unless you know the genes of the parents of your fish there is no "Garunteed" answer. Do you know anything about mendellion genetics? It can help explain a lot and you can learn a lot about your fish!

For example: my LF common male and LF calico just spawned producing commons, calicos, and an albino (I consider myself very lucky!) Now I know my common male and my calico female are both het (heterozygous) for albinism.

Genetics is fun! I am so new to breeding these guys, I can't say what is dominant, recessive, or if multiple genes are responsible for coloring.... But if you are in the dark, it's a good place to start.

Some people are all about keeping their fish genetically "pure" but until you start experimenting and taking risks, nothing new will be achieved!

I plan on breeding my green dragon make to a calico female. And to an albino female when I find one I like. Who knows something crazy might pop up! Or I could just end up with a lot of commons on my hands, lol.



Last edited by ktk05 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:18 pm

http://www.bristlenoseworld.com/t2500-crosses-interbreeding-bristlenose-updated

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aidenh48
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:42 pm

Damn Doug, you the man! Wow, very impressed with the link. You pretty much covered all my questions. I think I'm going to keep my reds together for atleast 1spawn and keep a few out of that spawn and cross them with one of every color morph if I can , and would be more then happy to share the info. Granted it will be a long while before I have any info, but it is going to be fun. I wish I knew more about the parents of my bn, but I don't have any info on them so it sucks, but at the same time it will be more fun!

Thanks a ton Doug, and great job!!!!!!!
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:19 am

cheers Smile

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The number one source of Bristlenose information and the most detailed breeding guide avaliable
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GO TO www.keepingandbreedingbristlenose.com FOR YOUR COPY!!

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GFYS
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:24 am

If you crossed a red and a calico (remember we are assuming they are pure breds) The results would probably be all calico fry but commons are also a possibility.

If you crossed a red and an albino.I would of predicted mostly albinos with the possiblility of a few with dark eyes (going on the info that reds came from albinos) but this cross has been known to produce all commons.So this makes me think reds didnt come from albinos.

If you bred a calico and an albino (assuming they are pure breds) The fry would be all calico.
*****************************************************
This is interesting, my results seem to show something different. 

Calico crossed to to albino makes 100% normals carring both genes if both animals are not carring any hidden genes. I know I did the cross with animals that were only homo for the genes they were expressing.

If you cross a Albino to a super Red you get the same result as if you used a calico. Super reds are line bred calicos . They were line bred to reduce the dark pattern that is why Super Red crossed to calico produces calico. I have animals that are a second gen crossed back to Super red. They are super Red x Calico X Super Red

There is no such thing as a more reccive gene . Albino is just as ressive as calico.


Last edited by Doug on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changing wording)
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GFYS
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:38 am

ktk05 For example: my LF common male and LF calico just spawned producing commons, calicos, and an albino (I consider myself very lucky!) Now I know my common male and my calico female are both het (heterozygous) for albinism.

That also means your common LF male is also heterozygous for calico
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PostSubject: Re: Bristlenose Plecos, and color morphs/genes   Today at 8:31 pm

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