Two BN died :(

Hello,

New to forums and was hoping to get some advice on my tank. I originally had two BN, 1 albino and 1 regular which both seemed to thrive in my tank for 2-3 months. About 3 weeks ago I change the gravel from about 5-8 mm grey gravel to smaller 2-4mm black gravel. Mainly to make it easier for the BN to find the food because the "holes" in the gravel are smaller, seemed like they would search around them but only find the shrimp pellets 50% of the time now they almost never miss a pellet.

At this time I also added some more prepped driftwood and rearranged my deco. Later that week I added another albino BN for a total of 2 albino and 1 reg. All seemed well until a few days later I found the regular BN dead and lodged really good between driftwood and a fake plant. It happened to be near the back corner of my tank where the current of my tank could have taken it after he died and he was always skittish of my 1 albino and easily give up pellets so maybe two stressed him too much?

Well today I found one of my albinos dead... this time same area but from other side of plant where it meets the glass and facing "up current" and going into the plant from "down current" side of it.

I think that both BN that died there got stuck when foraging and were not able to get out. Needless to say I removed that plant and the plant in the other corner of my tank out of fear of losing my last BN.

Anyone ever have a problem like this? Would live plants be easier for them to move through?

P.S. Tank is a 26 bow front with 4 tetra, 6 danio and sadly only 1 BN. 20%-40% water changes/vacuum weekly and never had problems with PH, Ammo, ect..

I really doubt your BN got stuck, it can happen, but they are rather strong for a plastic plant to trap them.

If it wasn't the plants, you did make two major changes that might be problems.

First, you say you changed the gravel- it sounds like you took out the existing substrate and replaced it with new. That would have greatly and suddenly reduced the population of nitrifying bacteria, and could have also released pockets of poisonous anaerobic gases that form in undisturbed substrate, especially under rocks or decorations.
Second, you added another BN. You did not mention quarantining it first, so assuming it wasn't it could have introduced an unknown disease. You didn't say whether the albino that died was the new one or your original fish.

Very sorry for your losses. Hopefully the remaining fish will be ok. Tetras and danios are fairly hardy. I would do a major water change, in case it is gases, and keep a very close check on the ammonia and nitrites.
Perhaps someone else will have other ideas, you should pop over to the New Members section and introduce yourself, everyone here is very helpful.

Sarah

Hi and welcome to Bristlenoseworld,I just typed a rather long reply but unfortunately lost it into cyber space somewhere.So here is a shorter version

Some of it was same as what Sarah has said and a few other things.I would stop feeding the shrimp pellets altogether and feed algae and vegetables such as Hikari algae wafers and Tetra pro veg crisps,cucumber,green beans,sweet potato and so on.A good and varied diet is what is needed and the correct one.

I agree that the plants wouldn't of trapped them,it is more likely that the current took their bodies there afterwards.

I also wonder if it is the new fish remaining?

It may not sound plauseable but it is a possibility that they may of swallowed some of that tiny gravel along with the small shrimp pellets.Also was the gravel cleaned well before being put into the tank?

Agree with Sarah about the removal of bacteria etc.Did you clean out the filter/s or do any changes to the filter/s media or anything at the same time?

What filter/s do you have and what size is a 26 please?

How big were the two fish that died and the remaining one?

How long have you had the fish and how long has the tank been running?

When did you last do a water test?

Sorry about all the questions but the more we know the better we can help you.


Bristlenoses

thanks Bristlenoses, I totally missed the incorrect (shrimp pellet) diet.

A 26gal. is a little over 98 liters/ Hopefully Palmer570 will answer your other questions.

K I think I have all the answers to your questions. note: I miss spoke before, i did not add more wood i added more fake plants while changing substrate.

I had the tank for over 3 months. All "original" fish have been in for atleast 2 months, I added two tetra along with the new albino about three weeks ago. No quarantine though.

I do water tests weekly, API Master kit, right before I do my weekly water change of 20%, once a month about 40%. I vacuum over a 1/3 of the area of the gravel including under any deco, so basically tank is divided into three sections and i clean one each week.

Last weekends water tests were good. Ph is rock steady at 6.8, only ever had a ammo spike when i first started tank, and never had a reading nitrite or nitrate above 0 ppm.

New gravel was washed extensively, now that i looked at my measuring tape the new gravel is more 5-8 mm. Previous was probably like 8-12mm.

I do feed them Hikari wafers about once a week but they really don't eat them like the shrimp pellets. I've tried everything I could find except banana, peas and tomatoes but they wouldn't eat anything, raw or blanched. I finally tried the pellets and they love'm

The first BN was about 2.75 inches when it died. The new albino was about 2.5 inches and is the one that died. The old albino is probably 3.25 inches.

I have a Aqueon quiet flow 20, rated for 20-30gal tanks. It came in a starter kit with the tank. It uses activated carbon filters which I change once a month.

Tank size, inches, 24W x 21H x 10.5 D plus bowed front.

Also that back corner of the tank was extremely tight! The first BN was very hard to get out and the way the second one was I don't think the current could have pushed it that far around the plant.

Hi again,
I'm not overly familar with the Aqueon filters, besides the carbon insert that you are changing monthly is there any other media in it (usually a sponge of some sort)?

I know this may sound ironic, but you may have been keeping your tank too clean. Zero ammonia and nitrite readings are good, but the nitrate should not be zero, especially not before a water change. The presence of nitrate indicates a functioning biological filter- the most important type of filtration.

Your tank is fairly new. It may not be fully cycled yet. Initially, ammonia spikes are normal, followed by nitrites, and then the relatively nontoxic nitrate once the biological cycle is complete. This usually takes several weeks.

I'm not dismissing your feeling that the BN may have gotten stuck- it is possible and you can see your set up, I can't. But I do know I keep all sizes of BN in tanks half filled with heavy tangled pieces of craggy driftwood. There are literally hundreds of potential places for them to jam themselves into, yet I have never had a single one get stuck and they will indeed choose the tightest holes possible.

As for the food, you just have to treat them like kids- just because they want to eat nothing but candy (shrimp pellets) doesn't mean it's good for them (it isn't). If you can't cut him off cold, stick one of the shrimp pellets deep into a piece of cucumber so he has to eat the veg to get to it. After a couple days, eliminate the shrimp pellet.

OK, I'll let others offer their advice. Welcome and happy to have you Sarah

No sponge, been meaning to put one in but always forget to pick one up. It does have a plastic filter holder and another plastic "filter"(used to quite the flow into tank) that they claim acts like a sponge for bio. filtration but I doubt its as good as a actual sponge.

palmer570 wrote:

No sponge, been meaning to put one in but always forget to pick one up. It does have a plastic filter holder and another plastic "filter"(used to quite the flow into tank) that they claim acts like a sponge for bio. filtration but I doubt its as good as a actual sponge.

OK, it's probably a kind of plastic mesh that sits in front of the carbon cartridge, yes? That is probably your main area of nitrifying bacteria right now, so as long as you haven't cleaned that, it should be building up some good bacteria. Don't even rinse it unless it is so grubby it's clogged, then just swish it in some tank water and put it back. Make sure it never dries out, or is exposed to hot or very cold water. I would also not replace the carbon cartridge, most of them can be gently rinsed in lukewarm water and reused several times. The carbon is only "active" for a short time, and isn't normally needed anyway. By reusing your filters they and the exhausted carbon will also become colonized with good bacteria (and save you money!).
Don't replace the mesh, even though you're correct about sponge having more surface area. You can buy a separate sponge filter and air pump- nothing fancy needed, the air pump doesn't need to be powerful, a moderate flow works better anyway. It will take a while to "seed", but once active, sponge filters are superb bio- filters.
I would do daily water tests and watch for ammonia/nitrite spikes. If they happen, then you will know the tank is still cycling. Fish are very sensitive to ammonia, so you will have to neutralize it, which will delay the cycling process. If you happen to know someone with a healthy established tank, ask them for a handful of substrate and/or some nice dirty media from their filter- adding that to your tank can speed things up considerably.
Hope this helps, Sarah

Hi again,excellent advice from Sarah,please take note of it.I will add that if it was me I would remove the carbon altogether.The only time it really needs to be used is to remove meds (this is just my opinion).If it is possible i would replace them with sponge.

Also another potential problem i can see is your vacumming routine.If you are only vaccing one third of the gravel once a week this means that 2 thirds are left for 2 weeks unvacced and one third is left for 3 weeks unvacced.The problem with this is that the dirt from the other two thirds will travel somewhat,so potentialy some rotting parts could be in there for weeks on end.When you vac the gravel do the whole lot at the same time.I know that this will remove a lot of the water especialy in a small tank but as long as you have very good filter media this will be fine.

I definately would get another filter that can contain plenty of sponge and if possible also put some into your existing filter.This is very important and will help tremendously.At the moment it sound like you have very little area for any bacteria to live and colonise on.

It is a possiblity that they got stuck but like Sarah said it is unusual.You have removed the plants now so that it will not happen to your remaining bristlenose.

Please can i ask you to put a post in the new members section to introduce yourself.


Bristlenoses

Thanks all for your input. I've had the idea in the back of my head about getting a bigger filter or adding another on the other side of the tank, I'll check them out when I go for sponges.

Gonna keep a close eye on these little guys and keep doing daily water tests.

Forgot to mention that my danio and tetra are glowfish. I barely ever put the blue light LEDs on them, but the day before the last BN died some friends stopped over and I used the LEDs to show them. Would have been the first time for the new albino BN. Anyone ever have problems with the LEDs?

palmer570 wrote:

Thanks all for your input. I've had the idea in the back of my head about getting a bigger filter or adding another on the other side of the tank, I'll check them out when I go for sponges.

Gonna keep a close eye on these little guys and keep doing daily water tests.

Forgot to mention that my danio and tetra are glowfish. I barely ever put the blue light LEDs on them, but the day before the last BN died some friends stopped over and I used the LEDs to show them. Would have been the first time for the new albino BN. Anyone ever have problems with the LEDs?

Never heard of them causing any issues. Fish can be startled by any bright lights, esp if it's sudden and at an abnormal time, but LEDs are used extensively in aquarium set-ups so I doubt you need worry about them.

What color(s) are your glowfish?

2 blue, 2 red, 2 yellow for the danio and the 4 tetra are green. Going to get two purple danio eventually to have all the colors.

palmer570 wrote:

2 blue, 2 red, 2 yellow for the danio and the 4 tetra are green. Going to get two purple danio eventually to have all the colors.

Neat, must be pretty! How's everybody doing? Does the surviving BN seem ok and is he/she eating vegetables yet ? What kind of readings are you getting with your water tests?

Sarah

Everyone seems to be doing great. The remaining BN looks healthy and seems as active as ever. Water tests have been good no ammonia or nitrite, haven't changed the water in over a week and Nitrate is slowing rising last couple days (around 5 ppm today).

She, think the BN is a she kinda hard to tell just yet, will pick a little at cucumber. I need to get to the grocers and get some other veggies. No more shrimp pellets just a piece of a algae wafer here and there.

Still trying to get my hands on a working camera, will post some pics of my tank when I get a chance.

Changed the layout of the deco and really happy with how the currents behave and the fish seem to love it. Most of the fish poop seems to be collecting in a small area which I can easily clean midweek and keep the water cleaner before my weekend routine.

Sounds good!

That rise in nitrate means the biological filter is active.
Be careful not to clean too thoroughly, the nitrifying bacteria need "food" to proliferate. In time it will colonize every surface, especially the substrate, but also the tank walls, decorations, tubing, everything.
Low levels of nitrate are safe, and regular water changes keep it low. The good bacteria doesn't live in the water column, it has to attach to something, even large water changes don't affect it providing the surfaces don't dry before the new water is added.
To preserve and encourage good bacteria, don't clean everything at once. Don't change the filter media the same day you do your gravel vac. Don't wipe all the interior glass at once, for viewing you can keep the front spotless, but allowing a little buildup on the other surfaces is beneficial. If decorations or filter parts need cleaning, use removed tank water, or lukewarm tap water if it isn't clorinated. Hot, very cold, or clorinated water will kill the good bacteria. So will many medications, avoid dosing your tank if at all possible.

Sorry, I have gone on and you probably already know most of this. Just trying to stress the importance of the bio-filter, if that's thriving 90% of the battle is won. Much of the rest is aesthetics, important to us, less so to the fish.

Lots of veg to try, your girl sounds like she's coming around. Mine love raw mushroom, zucchini, and esp. spinach or any dark leafy greens.

Delighted to hear all is well, Sarah