Need some advice guys

OK Mark, glad you aren't mad at me

Sounds like you have a lot of options. Do you by any chance have a currently running, seeded hot or sponge filter on one of your tanks suitable for the 10 gal, or a smaller filter you can fill with seeded media? If so, you can set up that 10gal now, fill it with tank water from the one she's in, toss in some gravel from the tank and you will have a cycled tank to put that female in with the male of your choice right now.

Sarah

I don't have a seeded filter small enough for the ten gal. I have filters for the ten gal, but nothing that I can take out of an established tank. I was thinking of setting up the ten and put some gravel out of the tank she is in into a media bag, and placing the bag into the filters of the ten gal, while also filling it up with water from the tank to. There will be nitrifying bacteria in filter, but will still take a few days to keep control of the water. It will still be quicker then starting new. I do have like 4-5 tubes to use for the job, just have to boil them since they have not been in use for a while, and don't want to take a chance.

aidenh48 wrote:

I don't have a seeded filter small enough for the ten gal. I have filters for the ten gal, but nothing that I can take out of an established tank. I was thinking of setting up the ten and put some gravel out of the tank she is in into a media bag, and placing the bag into the filters of the ten gal, while also filling it up with water from the tank to. There will be nitrifying bacteria in filter, but will still take a few days to keep control of the water. It will still be quicker then starting new. I do have like 4-5 tubes to use for the job, just have to boil them since they have not been in use for a while, and don't want to take a chance.

All you need is enough active media (perhaps some sponge or floss/fiber from one of your canister filters that has been running a while) to fill the small 10 gal filter. There is no nitrifying bacteria in the water column, so you could even fill the 10 gal with new water, you will still have an instantly cycled tank. It doesn't require any extra time.

I set up tanks like this all the time (using 100% clean new water) and a single seeded sponge filter. Often it's for delicate angel fry, and it's never a problem.

Just an option, Sarah

What if I took one of the floss pads out of one of my canister filters, and folded it up to fit into the small hob filters that I have for the 10gal? I would assume its exactly the same thing, just no carbon which I could ad in the future if need be. I have just been cleaning the tank out, and cleaning everything to set it up. So it's ready to go, just ad water and bacteria. I know that there isn't any bacteria in the water column, but there is no metals, no ammonia, nitrites, and ph is dead on, and nitrates is about 10ppm, so using the tank water is just because it is where it needs to be, less work getting it right, and easy transition on the fish.

Fast video of the female brown belly...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=pnL2YuL9oSg
I have some super clear big still photos, but can't get them up on the post no matter what I try. I can only put up videos after I load the to you tube.

Hi,I watched the vid and although it isn't long and a little blurry I freeze framed it and had a look.I still say she's gravid,but that is only my opinion.

I had to alter the link to view it.Here it is for people who can't view the original link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnL2YuL9oSg



Bristlenoses

Whoah, it is sooooo huge! Sara catfish I mean.

aidenh48 wrote:

What if I took one of the floss pads out of one of my canister filters, and folded it up to fit into the small hob filters that I have for the 10gal? I would assume its exactly the same thing, just no carbon which I could ad in the future if need be. I have just been cleaning the tank out, and cleaning everything to set it up. So it's ready to go, just ad water and bacteria. I know that there isn't any bacteria in the water column, but there is no metals, no ammonia, nitrites, and ph is dead on, and nitrates is about 10ppm, so using the tank water is just because it is where it needs to be, less work getting it right, and easy transition on the fish.

Sorry, I'm an "angelfish person" frequent, near 100% water changes are the norm to me and the fish love and thrive on them. Of course you can just use tank water in the 10 gal.

A used floss pad should be just fine, and all you need. Carbon is completely unnecessary unless you need it to remove medications. What kind of hob filter do you have? If there's room you can add some sponge to it later as well.

Saw the new video, in that one she does look gravid to me as well. I think Bristlenoses may be right.

Sarah

ktk05 wrote:

Whoah, it is sooooo huge! Sara catfish I mean.

Hey, watch it!
She's just big boned....... has a very pretty face, and a great personality.

The filters for the 10 are both marineland bio wheels. I don't remember the size as I have had them a long time, but they are the smallest bio wheel marineland makes. Yeah, I don't use carbon in my filters at all unless like you said, to remove meds, or something like that. In my canisters, when I buy them I take out the carbon packs, and use the tray for extra bio media. That gives me about 30% more bio capacity.
I set up the 10gal and she is in it with the sf albino adult male. Now, the common answer from everyone seems to be that she is super gravid, which is what I thought as well at the beginning, but can they really go months without dropping they're eggs? I would think she would have either absorbed, dropped, or died because of it a long time ago! Well, at this point she is in the 10gal with a male, and I'm gonna fast her for a few days. It would be awesome if she does drop eggs and everything goes good with the inexperienced male! That would make me, and that fat little female happy!

aidenh48 wrote:

The filters for the 10 are both marineland bio wheels. I don't remember the size as I have had them a long time, but they are the smallest bio wheel marineland makes. Yeah, I don't use carbon in my filters at all unless like you said, to remove meds, or something like that. In my canisters, when I buy them I take out the carbon packs, and use the tray for extra bio media. That gives me about 30% more bio capacity.
I set up the 10gal and she is in it with the sf albino adult male. Now, the common answer from everyone seems to be that she is super gravid, which is what I thought as well at the beginning, but can they really go months without dropping they're eggs? I would think she would have either absorbed, dropped, or died because of it a long time ago! Well, at this point she is in the 10gal with a male, and I'm gonna fast her for a few days. It would be awesome if she does drop eggs and everything goes good with the inexperienced male! That would make me, and that fat little female happy!

Hi,A female has been known to be gravid for quite a few months so it isn't unusual.Have you got caves and wood and cover in the tank?How old is the male or how big is he?It may of been better to put her in with a male that is experienced.I hope it all goes well.Please keep us updated.



Bristlenoses

There is three breeding tubes, a baseball sized piece of drift wood, and two fake plants. The male with her is about 1.5yrs old, and is about 3.5 in long. The male is no doubt mature, just hasn't breed with a female yet. I didn't want to take the long fin male because he spawns with my to adult albino females, and they are gonna drop any day now, if not tonight. So the short fin male is the only one really available, plus he needs to learn sometime I guess!

I think what can happen is she probably has been absorbing or expelling eggs, otherwise she would be egg bound and acting sick since multiple groups of eggs would have been backing up inside her and that can't go on too long.
She's small, so eggs might make her look bigger than normal, plus she may indeed overeat a bit being the smallest fish in the pond, so she always looks swollen.

Hopefully this will do the trick. I know you know how to trigger them, so good luck and keep us informed - this is turning into quite a page turner!

Sarah

Well today's update...
She and the male are doing great and fully adjusted to the new environment. She has been fasting for 24hrs and no change so far. I have been waiting to start to trigger a spawn till they were adjusted, but since they have been doing great in the new, smaller tank, I'm gonna start the triggering process tonight, and every night for next few days. It would be great if they became a new breeding pair! We will see what happens!
Thanks guys for all the advice, and hopefully WE will get an answer soon! I will keep posting a daily update till something happens with her.

P.S. I finally got a pair of super reds today. My male is 3in and the female is 2.5-2.75in. They are not proven, but hopefully that will change soon! What size do bn Plecos start spawning? I know each fish is different, and since I don't know their age, I want to know how far they may still be off from they're first spawn.

Hi,you can't always go on size but usualy at that size you shouldn't have too long to wait.

I am glad the pair have settled in the new tank.



Bristlenoses

aidenh48 wrote:

Well today's update...
She and the male are doing great and fully adjusted to the new environment. She has been fasting for 24hrs and no change so far. I have been waiting to start to trigger a spawn till they were adjusted, but since they have been doing great in the new, smaller tank, I'm gonna start the triggering process tonight, and every night for next few days. It would be great if they became a new breeding pair! We will see what happens!
Thanks guys for all the advice, and hopefully WE will get an answer soon! I will keep posting a daily update till something happens with her.

P.S. I finally got a pair of super reds today. My male is 3in and the female is 2.5-2.75in. They are not proven, but hopefully that will change soon! What size do bn Plecos start spawning? I know each fish is different, and since I don't know their age, I want to know how far they may still be off from they're first spawn.

Hi Mark, Spawning would be the best! Trigger away! Sounds good so far, she won't get skinny from fasting if she's gravid.

Congratulations on the pair of reds! (you BETTER have them quarantined)

Size isn't always a good indicator, age is more accurate as to sexual maturity. You will just have to wait and see. Are the male's bristles developed yet? Reds are probably being somewhat inbred still, so they may be slower to start or stay smaller or any number of variables. My breeding reds are somewhat smaller than most of my albinos, but then so are my browns, so I guess that's meaningless.

Keep us posted, and some pics of the reds please! Sarah

Oh yes, the reds a quarantined. I put them in my new 40gal that has all brand new equipment, and is fully cycled. That is going to be their home as well, and once I know for sure there is no problems, then I'm adding a albino female that is of the same size. I have been waiting for a chance at some reds, and really wanted a trio, but perfectly happy with a pair. Yes the male has a face full of bristles, as in not just tiny stubs of bristles. I have a few pics already, but I can't seem to post them here. I will try from my laptop but my iPad doesn't let me know matter what I do.
My fat little brown female is still the same at the moment. I started doing the cold water change triggering last night before lights out, and will continue for a while until hopefully I get some eggs!
I wish I knew the age of the reds but I got them second hand, and the seller didn't know. What size are your breeding reds Sarah? I know size really doesn't mean anything but still just curious!

Mark,
To be quite honest I'm not sure exactly how big the reds are.

Like all my BN they are in a species tank, piled 1/2 to 2/3 way up with bogwood, with the caves underneath. I don't even know how many males and females are in there, just that (obviously) there are both, and I've not see much in the way of males squabbling yet.

I feed them, I change 50% to 60% or better of the water every couple days, and I check out the bare bottom under the wood with a flashlight every day. Other than that I pretty much leave them be. I'm not even positive just how many reds are in there, I think 9 or 10, but I've simply lost track of how many juveniles I've bought and added.

I'll try to get some decent pics, but I don't want to bother them while they are just getting started. There are quite a few babies out, not as many as I'd like, but the breeders are all young yet so I'm sure the spawns will increase.

BTW I wouldn't put an albino female in with your pair, you wouldn't want your male choosing her over the red female, and chances are, he will!
Your male sounds well mature enough, so if the female is close in size you are probably good to go! Good luck- Sarah

Yeah,I didn't think about that. I don't want him to pair off with the albino. My thinking was, having a trio which would bethe red male breeding with the red female, and the albino female. The thought never even crossed my mind about him totally dumping the red female. I don't breed these guys for the money, I do it for the hobby. I have places near me that are waiting to buy them, but that's not why I am doing it. I love fish! I keep them, now breeding them, and fish for them all year round! I just love fish! Even if the red male did spawn with an albino female or vice versa, there would still be some red fry anyways right? It doesn't matter cause I want them to be together.
Update on the brown female is........ There isn't one. Everything is still the same except the albino male has been following the her all over the tank, and not in an aggressive way either. He will just move up right next her, and when she moves, he follows and gets right next to her. Kind of like real life huh!! Guys chasing females and getting turned down a hundred times before she gives in! HaHa!

aidenh48 wrote:

Yeah,I didn't think about that. I don't want him to pair off with the albino. My thinking was, having a trio which would bethe red male breeding with the red female, and the albino female. The thought never even crossed my mind about him totally dumping the red female. I don't breed these guys for the money, I do it for the hobby. I have places near me that are waiting to buy them, but that's not why I am doing it. I love fish! I keep them, now breeding them, and fish for them all year round! I just love fish! Even if the red male did spawn with an albino female or vice versa, there would still be some red fry anyways right? It doesn't matter cause I want them to be together.
Update on the brown female is........ There isn't one. Everything is still the same except the albino male has been following the her all over the tank, and not in an aggressive way either. He will just move up right next her, and when she moves, he follows and gets right next to her. Kind of like real life huh!! Guys chasing females and getting turned down a hundred times before she gives in! HaHa!

Your brown female sounds like a very sensible young lady from a good family.
I have a feeling he can follow her till he drops, until he caves up and lets her come to him he ain't gett'n lucky! They're both young, but will probably figure it out. Are you still "starving" them?

As for the red x albino I'm not sure you would get red fry. I don't know if anyone actually knows how the reds were developed. Some sources claim they weren't bred from albinos, that it was by using color morphs from brown BN. Others say it was from selecting for deeper and deeper orange albinos. But something else had to be added or I imagine they wouldn't have black eyes. Older reds tend to develop some brown flecks overall, so there probably is at least some brown in the background. You might pose your question to Bristlenoses or Doug, and/or a general query might shake out somebody that has actually done the cross.

Sarah

Last night was the last night for the "starving". I'm gonna give them a small amount of food today at the regular feeding time. She has not changed at all. The male has been in and out of the three caves that are in there but he hasn't stuck to one yet. They are both young and have never bred yet, so I think it is just inexperience that is holding things up. I do have my big long fin male that spawns with my two big albino females, but I really don't want to separate them especially now when the girls are gravid again. I also have a calico pair, and again I don't want to break them up. Same with the reds. The only available male is the one she is with. Hopefully their instincts will kick in so, and things will be on their way. Hey, they gotta learn sometime right!!
I am gonna do some research on the way genes, and color morphs go with the bn, and I am gonna post a new topic and see what we get. I know I have read a good post here on this site, but couldn't find it last night. I think it was by bristlenoses too.