Peppermint Pleco died not sure why? should I move small Goldy Plec

This afternoon I noticed my 8cm or so Peppermint Pleco that I purchased about 3 weeks to a month ago was dead

I did a water change last night and added the water with seachem prime and seachem stability to the purified water from my RO/DI unit rather fast from a bucket. This is my normal water change procedure with this tank, since there are so many minerals still in the tank I don't add any minerals to the purified water. as the ph comes out still at 7.5 from the tank but the pure water is very low ph like 5.0 . was it ph shock perhaps?

most of my tanks that don't have a ph below 6.4 I don't add any of the Kent RO Right product to reconstitute the water and haven't had any deaths. Since most of my tanks still have so much mineral buffer from when I was using very hard tap water that would raise to about 8.0 in some of my tanks, I didn't want to raise the ph too much.

Stomach was not sunken didn't seem to be too full either. This Pleco had only been at the LFS one week when I purchased.
Also I added a Goldy Pleco about 5cm about two weeks ago and started feeding more brine shrimp after it was added. Goldy Pleco looks fine came from the store with a large stomach.The Peppermint never really moved around much but always stayed under the rocks I setup like a cave. I added different vegetables such as sweet potato and broccoli with a spoon anchor but the only thing I noticed being eaten were the pellets.

Should I move the Goldy Pleco? There are more Peppermint Plecos still at the LFS, maybe I should have waited a month instead of just one week. If I purchase another should I try a different a tank?


Tank size and setup:10 gl/37L lots of wood and rocks

Substrate:small gravel and sand two kinds of wood and several of sandstone rock slabs placed over wood for coverage.

filtration (Internal, external, flow rate, last cleaned and what it was cleaned in):corner sponge, aquaclear 20 124l 33g per hour, small In tank Tetra Whisper filter for small aquariums, Hagen Elite Stingray underwater filter with water circulator.

Airstone/sponge filter etc: bubble wall, two air pumps one for corner sponge filter and another for bubble wall

Inhabitance: very small goldy pleco and peppermint pleco now deceased

Fish affected by issue (all/bottom dwellers, all bristlenose or a single fish etc): only peppermint pleco

Feeding system (what, how much, how often): Omega One algae pellets and hikari sinking cichlid-excel pellets vegetables twice a week such as broccolli, sweet potato none were touched. very small amount frozen brine shrimp daily

current water change system (before illness appeared):10-20% evry night or every other night

water changes made since illness appeared: %20

As many levels as you know :ph 7.5-7.8 Ammonia 0, nitirite 0, nitrate bearly noticeable

[b]any chemicals used (including carbon/chemical fitration inside the filter):carbon and bio pellets

water source and treatment: spectrapure 65 GPD water purifer

Major changes in the last 3 weeks (new fish, new plants, new anything or changes): added new goldy about two weeks ago and started adding more frozen brine shrimp

Symptoms (gasping, not moving, bloated, spots, wounds, stressed colours etc):

Pictures:camera is not working

hi sorry to hear about you loosing your pep.

Don't think this is the issue as you only had two fish in the tank, but IMO you are doing to many water changes...

Personnally I only do a 15 -20% waterchange once a week, unless I have treated the tank and then may do a couple of 10% changes every other day for a week to help clear the treatment.

If you do too many changes it affects your filters, which then cause spikes in the ammonia and/or PH levels. Its all about getting the balance right to keep the water as stable and as good/clean as possible.

Also with the frozen brine shrimp, did you add them as a frozen lump or let them defrost first. You also said that you increased the amount you fed, does that mean you fed it daily..?? When I use frozen foodsI always like to defrost it first, (sit it on top of the tank for an hour) before feeding it, I also only feed frozen foods or live foods no more than twice a week.

Like I said these might not have been the cause of the death, but just some of the things that you might want to consider if you get another one.

Also the fact that you lost one fish doesn't necessarily mean that there is anything wrong or that you did anything wrong, occasionally you will get one die for no apparent reason.

Hope this helps, other more knowledgable people on here, may have some other ideas that may also be of help.



Jon

thanks Jon,

I do let the frozen shrimp defrost first in a sauce cup , but yes I was concerned that I might be doing too many water changes, normally I just vacuum any waste material and it is kind of a small change almost daily sometimes little less than %10 on estimate.

What is the pH of the water you're using for the water changes and what % of R.O water are you using?

I'm sure sandstone causes your pH to rise and is more suited to keeping cichlids from the great lakes and explains why your pH is 7.5-7.8. Your water changes, which do seem excessive, may be creating pH swings that have shocked your peppermint.

Your Goldy plecs (has it got a name or L No.) diet is not best suited for BN's.

the water I user to change is purified water it is below 5.9 ph and I used %100 R/O for all the water changes haven't had any trouble with it yet until now.



I was wondering about the sandstone being too strong of a buffer. I'll propably remove it then.


I couldn't get the peppermint to eat any veggies though I propably should have tried more, the lfs only feeds them wafers and flakes and they still have two left there.

the Goldy Pleco is an L014 and from what I read is an omnivore. Not hearing about it leaning towards veg or animal protein side though?

good to see the new template works well, got all the info i might need.

Anyway, as pointed out i think dialing back on the water changes is a great way to start as has been mentioned it seems a bit high. I know plecos can be messy but excessive water changes can mess with the cycle in the tank and cause nasty swings.

The second thing is the pH is too high and the constant variations around this are going to cause lots of issues. THe sandstone has to go NOW!!! its a very reactive rock that leaches all sorts of chemicals into the water and most of these are alkaline buffers causing your high pH. Replace it with slate which is inert. Most of us who use RO water (myself included) had to go through a trial and error process to get the ballance right between pH and mineral content. Most of us now use a mixture of either RO and tap water or RO and HMA water (the waste water from the RO unit). I use 1 HMA to 5 RO because the water here is so hard and basic. others use 50:50 splits. What i suggest people do is get a series of containers and run some trials. make up several different ratios of RO:tap/HMA water and leave over night then test the pH in the morning. aim for about 6.5 as that will still have enough minerals without the excessive pH. Then without the sandstone in the tank you will find a much more stable pH over time.

I also suspect that there is too much protein in there of a bristlenose, its their little blight i guess. Too much protein is bad for them but give them the choice they will snack of bloodworms or brine shrimp all the time. I would maintain veges in the tank 100% of the time, changing after a max of 48hrs depending on which veges u use. the ones you mentioned are quite hard so i would blanch them first then leave in for a max of 24hrs to avoid fouling the water. then once you have seen the pep have a feed on that add the high protein foods for the goldy.

The other thing i will mention is that the tank is small, this will become very apparent very quickly as the goldy grows. I would suggest a large tank would help too as the more water the better able to tank is able to deal with swings and changes.

Sorry to hear about the little fella, but dont beat yourself up, these are common mistakes that people make all the time and mostly its because the fish shop didnt ask you if your tank was suitable, knowing that if it died then you would come back for another, double sales! its criminal if you ask me. You have made the first and most vital step in coming here and asking for help, we have all lost bristlenose (i have lost 1000s) and i have learnt each time by asking questions on here. sort out the issues raised with the tank and then get yourself some more bristlenose, you will love it!!!!!

I am not seeing any bubbling with the slab of sandstone in vinegar so not sure but I removed it any way.

thanks Doug,

I did remove the sandstone and won't be using that again ever.

I was worried about the small tank as well. It was a small tank used for quarantine of small fish but I am not going to use it anymore as I have had good luck with that size for some albino gibby's and l65's but I'd rather not take the chance just thinking if I should move the Goldy to the 475 liter tank with mostly veg eating L#'s and tetras that eat up high protein food mostly before it drops. or put in a 75 liter long tank with a coupkle of peckoltia lineoulus and a chaestoma/rubber nose plec and some red shrimp.

Your L014 is more carnivore and prefers a meaty diet so it's diet will be no good for your veggie L #'s. Your 75l tank mates have a more similar diet but he may soon outgrow that tank with a potential size of 11-12 inches.

I just want to add to this post about the benifits to haveing a QT tank.(quarantine) i see all to often posts on this kind of thing. Allot of fish are very stressed when they get shipped from here to there to here to your home. in that time they are very susceptible to getting sick or carrying bad things to our well cared for tanks that have fish we LOVE. So if you don't have one...get one even a 10 or 20g tank can work for this with a filter added to an exsiting tank you can move easy to the QT tank. I can't tell you how much greif and saddness this can save you..

On another note I never heard of to much water changing (not with use of RO). Infact if you don't use RO water there can never be to much. i have talked to allot of fish keepers who change 100% daily in there tanks. I change 50-70% each and every week but again I use tap water. They are called "Freshwater Fish" as in the wild its always fresh water for them til we(humans) screw it up for them..As for it messing up your bateria most of that should be in your filter so it won't be harmed doing water changes.
Now don't just start changing more than you are used to right away as the shock of fresh water to a tank thats not used to it can kill all of the fish (old tank syndrom) build it up slowly 10-20% every other day then 50% on say the 8th day to aviod hurting the fish.

This is my opinion as please treat it as such, by no means am I saying others are wrong in what they do. This is from "my" research and I don't know everything as I learn new things everyday

very sorry to hear about your fishy..I know myself i take it hard when I loose a pet always trying to figure out what happened..sometimes thou things just happen we can't control

Mike