Albino Longfin Trio: Breeding Program

Hello,

I am in the process of acquiring a trio of longfin ABP for breeding purposes. I will also be getting 1-2 breeding caves.

I am thinking about putting them in my 75Gallon planted tank. The tank has pool filter sand for substrate and I have 2 small pieces of driftwood (can add more if necessary)
Obviously it has plants...its almost like a forest in there now. I also have floating plants in the tank covering up almost half of the top (water sprite).

Tank mates are:
2 German Blue Rams (males)
2 Veiltail Angelfish Pair
1 Veiltal Half-Black Angelfish
2 loaches (no idea about the name/genus)
3 young A-BNPs

Here is a video of the actual tank. Most of the fishes are the same, but there are a lot more plants in the tank.


The water we get here is very soft and has a pH of 6.8
The wood also helps keep the pH low.
The temp in the tank is around 26-27 degrees
The tank is obviously cycled and well maintained (0 ammonia/nitrate & <10ppm nitrite)

Now that I have explained the scenario, my question is this:
1. Is the tank in the video good enough for a trio of longfin BNP to breed? or is it too big?
2. Is it advisable to keep the Angelfish, Rams and loaches in the tank? Would they eat the young BNPs when they emerge?
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3. I also have a 155G tank that is empty (no fishes). It has medium sized gravel substrate and LOTS of big driftwood pieces. If possible, I would really like to put the trio in here to breed, but since it is a 6 feet tank, I am worried that the male will have a hard time getting the female into his cave. I also have a very strong filter in this tank and am worried about the fry getting sucked up (maybe they are not as stupid as angelfish fry and can stay away from the filter intake )

Anyways, I would really like your inputs on this. I am planning to get the trio in a few days and I want to make sure I decide on how to set this up.
75G planted or 155G tank?

Ok, first rule of BN breeding...No loaches!! ok, well its prob not number one but its pretty high up on the list. Loaches are speacilests are getting into BN caves are eating the eggs so either remove the loaches or sacrifice the eggs.

From here you are correct about the other fish having a go at the fry but that said if the tank is as planted as you say then they should have plenty of room to hide. expect to loose a few tho especially after they first emergy as they are not the stongest swimmers.

If you set up the big tank then you are right, the male may have a hard time getting the female, so get more females. get a whole colony going in there. get 2 males and 4~6 females. that will ensure that there is always a female around for the males. Or better still. move the current tank into the big one then use the smaller tank for the BN breeding.

I use plastic tubs to do my breeding in (55ltr) with sponge filters, heater, wood and cave. then move the fry to a 4ft grow out tank when they are 1.5cms. cheep option but it works.

also, is the big tank already running? if not it wont be cycled in time for the trio

Superb advice doug...

I would have to agree with all you said......

and you have a great setup there mate....

Can always rely on Doug for great on the button advice...On ya Doug

Thank you very much for your advice Doug.

So you are stating that the best choice would be to move all the fish from the 75Gallon to the 155Gallon and then use the 75Gallon as a breeding tank?

The second choice would be to get 2 trios (which, luckily enough, I can) and house them in the 155G?

The 155G tank had fish until a week ago. I will be doing a very big water change (70%+) and siphoning off as much fish waste from the gravel as I can. As for the cycling part, if the current filter in the tank lost all the beneficial bacteria, then I can always move one of the sponge filters from my other tanks. The only issue is that if I move the Angelfish there, then I can expect babies in a week...

Assuming I put them in the 75Gallon, would 1 trio be enough?

Doug wrote:

Ok, first rule of BN breeding...No loaches!! ok, well its prob not number one but its pretty high up on the list. Loaches are speacilests are getting into BN caves are eating the eggs so either remove the loaches or sacrifice the eggs.

From here you are correct about the other fish having a go at the fry but that said if the tank is as planted as you say then they should have plenty of room to hide. expect to loose a few tho especially after they first emergy as they are not the stongest swimmers.

If you set up the big tank then you are right, the male may have a hard time getting the female, so get more females. get a whole colony going in there. get 2 males and 4~6 females. that will ensure that there is always a female around for the males. Or better still. move the current tank into the big one then use the smaller tank for the BN breeding.

I use plastic tubs to do my breeding in (55ltr) with sponge filters, heater, wood and cave. then move the fry to a 4ft grow out tank when they are 1.5cms. cheep option but it works.

also, is the big tank already running? if not it wont be cycled in time for the trio

OK, well, If they big tank had fish up til a week ago and you do as you mentioned above then i would say that the tank would be ready to recieve new fish soon. BN tend to be pretty hardy but do ensure that all the levels are safe before throwing them in.

I would say that you could prob fit 2 trios in the 75G tank :O One trio would be fine as when the femaes are gravid they will seek out a caved male, i have even seen a female boss a male into a cave so she can spawn and get back to her normal figure As i said, i keep pairs in 55ltr tubs (the rotate through that and a holding tank, 150 ltrs when im conditioning them). And i keep a trio permanently in a 2.5ft (80ltr) tank and they all breed like clockwork for me.

One thing i will ask is what is the intended goal of all this? When i got into breeding BN i did it so that i could cover the cost of my fish keeping. I am luck enough that i have the time to put into it that i do get an decent return (min 1 hour/day). If you plant to breed for this purpose then you will need to look at a grow out tank for the fry as the parents generally dont breed again til most of the fry have been removed. So, breeding in a single tank does slow down the returns from such a venture.

If you just want to try your hand at breeding then great! It is extremely rewarding and every time you see those baby fish emerging for the first time you will feel so proud. I would wack the trio, or 2 trios into the 75g tank and enjoy the babies within a few weeks if your are lucky.

of course, if you really wanted to spend a bit of time, a few $$$ and get a bit more return. get some aquarium dividers and section off the big tank into say 4 sections. wack a trio in each and save one for fry. bingo, easy breeding setup

Great idea indeed. The intention IS for covering my fish keeping costs, but its mainly for the experience and fun of of breeding them. I really dont mind waiting a few months before each spawn

Doug wrote:

OK, well, If they big tank had fish up til a week ago and you do as you mentioned above then i would say that the tank would be ready to recieve new fish soon. BN tend to be pretty hardy but do ensure that all the levels are safe before throwing them in.

I would say that you could prob fit 2 trios in the 75G tank :O One trio would be fine as when the femaes are gravid they will seek out a caved male, i have even seen a female boss a male into a cave so she can spawn and get back to her normal figure As i said, i keep pairs in 55ltr tubs (the rotate through that and a holding tank, 150 ltrs when im conditioning them). And i keep a trio permanently in a 2.5ft (80ltr) tank and they all breed like clockwork for me.

One thing i will ask is what is the intended goal of all this? When i got into breeding BN i did it so that i could cover the cost of my fish keeping. I am luck enough that i have the time to put into it that i do get an decent return (min 1 hour/day). If you plant to breed for this purpose then you will need to look at a grow out tank for the fry as the parents generally dont breed again til most of the fry have been removed. So, breeding in a single tank does slow down the returns from such a venture.

If you just want to try your hand at breeding then great! It is extremely rewarding and every time you see those baby fish emerging for the first time you will feel so proud. I would wack the trio, or 2 trios into the 75g tank and enjoy the babies within a few weeks if your are lucky.

of course, if you really wanted to spend a bit of time, a few $$$ and get a bit more return. get some aquarium dividers and section off the big tank into say 4 sections. wack a trio in each and save one for fry. bingo, easy breeding setup

Waiting a few months isnt atol a bad idea....i have two female's rotating the spawns every 3 weeks and i simply cannot cope with the amount of fry...
its very easy to get over run with fry so make sure you have a nice big safe grow out tank..

Curby wrote:

Waiting a few months isnt atol a bad idea....i have two female's rotating the spawns every 3 weeks and i simply cannot cope with the amount of fry...
its very easy to get over run with fry so make sure you have a nice big safe grow out tank..

In that case, do you think it would be best to get 2 trios and put them in the 155Gallon tank?

My only worry right now is that the fry might get sucked up into the filter intake. Is this something I have to worry about? Should I cover the intake with a sponge or some netting?

i use sponges on the intake as i find them better than a net as the net soon clogs up

2 trios in either of those tanks will result in a similar spawn rate, ony difference will be the 75g will get over run with fry sooner, which generally stops the parents from breeding again.

Best thing i can recommend for people wanting to make some money out of breeding (aside from advice on the fish themselves) is to get out there early and hit up your local fish shops. grab something that you need (food etc) then when you head up to pay strike up a conversation with the manager and slowly drop in that you are starting to breed BN. Tell them how long it will be til you expect them to be sellable and see if they would be keen for some. head to a few places and try you luck. Doing this i now stock 6 different shops locally and 3 of those ring me, not the other way around just like any job, you need to be there when people need you.

apart from that, If i was in your shoes. My plan would be to move the current lot over to the large tank...and thats simply cos i love large tanks. One day i will have me a 10x3x3 ft tank i swears it!! then get two trios into the 75g tank. fill the tank with wood and caves (make sure the caves are not too close together and they face away from eachother - to avoid fights). then wack on the Barry White and dim the lights. If in the future you decide you want to increase your opperation then i would do the following. Split the 75g into 2 or 3 tanks, one trio in each. purchase a grow out tank (3ft should do it) and wait.

there are so many differnet options here for you that it really depends on what you want, where the tanks are etc.

Thanks a lot Doug and Deano.

I've decided that I will get 2 trios and put them in the 155G tank with 2 caves and place them 2 feet apart (entrance not facing each other). I will also be using sponge to cover up the filter intake.

I will post some pics of the 155G tank in a few days

I finally finished re-scaping my 155G tank 2 days ago and now its ready for the BNPs. I am thinking of getting 2 trios with 2 caves and put them in the tank.

I will be buying them tonight. Is there any advice on how to pick the dominant male? would it have long bristles or something?
The seller apparently has 4 trios, so I would like to pick the best half of the lot. Any insights on how to pick the good ones would really help.

Thanks

imo i would pick the males that arnt the dominent ones and get them about the same size if poss. that way it will cut down on problems with a dom male and one not.
i never keep two males in the same tank anymore i did when i first started out but you're more than likely get some probs from time to time and loose eggs.
i find i get better results with peice in the tranks. its a large size tank so you may well never get any problems time will tell.
hope all works out for you.

so I shouldn't go for the dominant one?

The tank is very big and the caves will be very far away from each other (atleast 2 feet apart) and entrance facing away.

Any other advice on what I should pick? How about the females? Should I pick the ones that look big or small?

choosing breeders is always a gamble. I never go for the largest ones these as they are often a bit older and have a bit of a temper. I like the younger ones who are about a year old. Apart from that, i go on colour and shape. just like any animal, the babies will take traits from their parents.

also, i would add more caves. the males will fight over the better one so best to add in a few then once they settle into their cave of choice then you can remove some of th un used ones.

Thanks a lot for the tips. I guess I will just pick the ones I like and stay away from the biggest ones.

I am buying a trio for $50, the cave is being sold for $6 a piece. I think its a good deal considering its longfin, but what is your opinion on it?
(I know that the prices in UK and Australia would certainly be different than Canada, but I wanted to ask anyways)

I think I can sell the babies for $5 to other hobbyists and hopefully at least $1 to a fish store.

well, put it this way...if i found a trio of longfin albinos for $50 i would not even hesitate, i would by them all

over here they can be well over $100.

and $6 for a cave is reasonable. here i would pay between $8 to $12 doe the different types of caves. at that price i would get 4 caves just so there little chance of the males fighting

I ended up getting 2 trios (thats all he had) and 3 caves. They are currently in the 75Gallon tank.

Nice one.

Good luck with it. hope thye work well for you

Good Luck, Wishing you loads of success with your new arrivals...

Thanks a lot guys. Hopefully they breed for me soon

Another question:
I put them in the 75G yesterday evening and they are mostly hiding under the sponge filter and the driftwood. I have yam in the tank, but I didn't see them eat any. I also put in some Algae wafers and no success. Maybe its a tank shock...no idea.

Anyways, I am thinking of putting 1 trio in a 10Gallon bare-bottom tank (38Litre). Is it too small? Should I go ahead with this or should I just wait and see what happens in the 75Gallon?
I am just worried about them not being able to find their food in the 75Gallon since its a forest in there...

If they are healthy & happy & most of all hungry, they will find the food within minutes...
Your's could be just resting from their ordeal of moving to a new home...Hopefully not in shock...
Luck with them...

yeah, im with mooo here, they are prob just catching their breath back after the move. remember that BN are actually nocternal by nature and will prob hide til nightfall. then might head out for a lurk. i would not be surprised if you wake up and the algae wafers are gone and the yam is munched on. it will prob take a few days before they are comfortable to com out during the day.

and if a BN is hungry, it will find food. remember they can eat the slime coat on longs, gravel, plants, glass etc so there is always food for them, well enough to keep them going for a day or two without suppliment.

Thanks for the update

I removed the yam, and brought some Zucchini and put them in the tank. Hopefully they will eat them tonight.

There are enough plants in the tank for them to eat algae off of. I've seen my smaller BNPs doing that before.