How much protein is too much?

Just wondering what everybody's thoughts on protein content were?
I mean how much is too much?
The wafers I am using at the moment are a min of 33% protein and I am wondering if that is a shade to high for our bristly little friends?
I have looked around for an alternate and most of the discs on the market seem to contain heaps of spirulina, which I'm fairly sure is bad in higher amounts so any suggestions?

Cheers,

Damien

Hi Aussie guy i feed mine Hikari brand wafers and as yet have had no problems they demolish them as soon as they go i tank mate

I have used algae wafers with min protein of 40% with no ill effect, although I never feed wafers more than twice a week and only once a week if I feed bloodworm, I prefer giving my BN's lots of different veg and fruits rather than dried food.

its an interesting question. I find that some fish are more prone to it than others and that what is right for some might be poor for others depending on tank conditions. Personally i like to go with the vege option as it is more like their natural diet which is high volume, low nutrient value.

I feed mine a flake food which is a combo of several different brands once a week to give them a protein boost but their staple is veges. if their staple is the flake food then i would keep a close eye on them

hmm im not feeding mine on veg at all, just sera catfish chips which is willow and alder wood and hikari algae wafers which is a high veg chip. i just switch wafers from one the the other. Have been feeding since i got my little ones at 2cm and they are fine. I just make sure there environment is health by changing water 2-3 times a week and giving them a heavy planted tank and have not had seen any signs of a weak fish. Specially after today when my heater was turned off and they survived 14 degrees water all night.

There is a list of veg that BN's will eat HERE, the algae wafers and catfish chips are excellent foods but adding veg will add more variety to their diet. as Doug mentioned veg is a more natural way of feeding, Bn.s have long intestinal tracts which help extract as much nutrition possible from low nutrient foods, basically in nature they have to eat large quantities of low nutrient foods.

I do use veggies as my staple and they love it. I swear my fish eat better than I do some days

I was reading the label on the wafers that I give them from time and yeah just got curious, would it be fair to say that up to 40% is ok providing its not used as a staple?

Aussie guy wrote:

I do use veggies as my staple and they love it. I swear my fish eat better than I do some days

I know what you mean

Aussie guy wrote:

I was reading the label on the wafers that I give them from time and yeah just got curious, would it be fair to say that up to 40% is ok providing its not used as a staple?

40%-45% should not be a problem when it's used as a complintary food.

Coolies and thanks

Today I fed my fishes with Tetra Discus! What do you think about this food! Crude protein 47.5%, crude oils and fats 6,5%, crude fiber 2,0% vitamines A, D, mangan 67 mg/kg, zinc 40 mg/kg, Fe 26 mg/kg. This are the main components of this food.
Just wanted to know your opinion!!! Cheers!!!

depends on what fish you are feeding it to?

if its bristlenose then that is going to kill them very quickly, if its discus then its going to be ok.

If you keep discus and bn in the same tank then when feeding high protein discus food it is important to feed sparingly. Just enough for the discus to eat before it hits the bottom. Also placing some veg in the tank will take foraging off the bns mind

I intended to feed only the bn but I will quit to give them Tetra Discus. I tried to feed them with diversed food every day like spirulina tabs with cucumber or catfish chips with zucchini. What do you think about this idea ( vegs in the morning and in the evening dry food)? From time to time i use the trick with the garlic. In the tank i have only bn. I hope soon to make some pictures...
Thank you guys!!! Cheers!!

It really depends on the fish in question.

For instance LDA16 needs more veggies, but L134s requires more protein.
For the latter I give frozen bloodworms, but discus gran, as well.

Although from time-to-time (after spawning) I do feed my L144 with a bit more protein (bloodworm, tubifex)

You cant really go wrong with veges and algae wafers. just as long as you do not over feed them and the food begins to rot in the bottom of the tank. I do alternate between veges and algae wafers depending on various things including the price of veges!

I also do throw in some flake food about once a week to give them some extra protein but only a little.

Thought that I would rehash the thread and a bit of food for thought.

I recently learned something that changed my thoughts a little. A lot of people think that the protein content is the contributing factor when it comes to BN's feeding and say bloat.

You might find two items with the same protein and have issues with one but not the other?

Some processes in manufacturing fish food is that it may be a compacted type of food where others are a extracted process.

This is just my thoughts but if you have a compacted food and the BN eats it, this might be where you have issues where as a food that uses a extracted process I think is where the BN eats it and does not seem to bloat.

To me its a bit like pigeons eating raw rice - they eat it and it swells in their stomach and think this can have an underlining issue similar to foods where the protein although important extraction may be as important as compacted.

Veggies are always good.

The problem is, how do we know if the food is extract or compress?... But yes that is a good point. I on the otherhand have never had bloat in my bn (touch wood) and iv kept them with discus and high protein feedings. The bn grew nicely with no problems. I'm just hoping there is something more to it and I havnt just been lucky lol

That is one of the problems because you generally do not even think about it as a question to ask to start with and also hard to get the answers on a local level and usually have to contact the manufacturers to find out. I have been breeding BN's and L's for years and did not even know myself until recently as I have started to sell food myself and asked questions and then did some testing for myself to see the results.

Although they are considered a herbivore I think it is not a bad thing for them to have a variety of food and in nature as too in the tank they will take to a carcass and is more of an issue of not gauging themselves and similarly with the foods available and if anything rounds out their diet.

As you mentioned they eat the scraps which is probably why they do not have the issue but if you removed the Discus and fed the same they probably would. This is why I am thinking more on the lines that it is not just protein but also the digestible food or how digestible the food is within the protein.

Thought it might just make a good conversational piece.

I have always heard that too much pritein is not good for plecos so i have always tryed to feed them mainly vegs or waffers

I have always thought it has to do with the length of a fishes intestines as to protein absorption.
Fish like some tetras and other carnivors and piscivores have short intestines so as to be able to absorb large amounts of protein of meat origin. But catfish have long intestines in order to break down longer chains of carbohydrates and so have difficulty in processing this protein. This then stays in the gut longer and the bacteria within the gut devour the animal proteins producing methane gas a byproduct and thus the bloat.
Thus a small amount of animal protein is ok but a large amount could cause problems.
That has always been my understanding.
Marty

I agree with you Martin it is something that they should not have a lot of and my post although asked more questions than gave answers it just gives more food for thought.

Even though when you look at the protein you are still giving them protein in Waffers. If you look at say the Hikari which is well known for BN's and L's and how well they work they still have a protein level of 33%

http://www.hikari.info/tropical/t_04.html

Veggies are pretty much the best option to feed them but it not a bad idea to round off their diet with other options.

I keep fresh zucchini in the tank for 2 days then i feed the waffers for a day and nite then back to the fresh zucchini and this has worked for me for yrs now.

The Tech Den wrote:

I agree with you Martin it is something that they should not have a lot of and my post although asked more questions than gave answers it just gives more food for thought.

Even though when you look at the protein you are still giving them protein in Waffers. If you look at say the Hikari which is well known for BN's and L's and how well they work they still have a protein level of 33%

http://www.hikari.info/tropical/t_04.html

Veggies are pretty much the best option to feed them but it not a bad idea to round off their diet with other options.

Also just one thing to note. That there are both animal proteins and plant proteins from things such as soy and they are different as they are made of different amino acids. So if a wafer has protein it might mean animal or plant and each are handled differently in the gut.

Well Soy that is another subject but we have gone this far so why not.

Soy, as a base for protein in fish food which is in the majorities of food you get now, can be good or can be bad. If heated incorrectly in the manufacture it will actually inhibit growth done correctly promotes growth. Sometimes when you get a cheap food with the same ingredients can have different results.

The Tech Den wrote:

Well Soy that is another subject but we have gone this far so why not.

Soy, as a base for protein in fish food which is in the majorities of food you get now, can be good or can be bad. If heated incorrectly in the manufacture it will actually inhibit growth done correctly promotes growth. Sometimes when you get a cheap food with the same ingredients can have different results.

You are absolutely right, incorrect heating of proteins cause a effect of Denaturation. In which the protein molecules unfold and eventually break, a great article for this can be found on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_(biochemistry)
Thus it is important to purchase foods that have been gently heat treated and not overly exposed.
Marty