Im new with a few questions!

The area were the dad is were you see the 2 orange eggs is were the bunch started at. When i came home they were all over. So what i did was i took my siphon and siphoned the eggs into a net that was under water.. I bent the net with the eggs in it so it would sit over my airstone so they are being oxygenated. Oxygen levels in water are highest at the top of the tank along with being moved around by the air stone bubbles. It was what i had on hand . The cave he spawned on is a small plastic pill bottle you would get a supplimetn in. I cleaned it very well and filled it with half gravel so it was a tighter fit because i know they like tight fits.

The tank you see on the left is the tank i am doing a fishless cycle on. When the tank is cycled i am going to make a DIY fish trap to trap some of these babies and acclimate them into this new tank. I am receiving a Fluval 105 canister filter in the next few days and will be adding it to the penguin 150 already there so it has high filtration due to so many babies. Lots of babies=lots of poop

If you guys have any suggestions i would greatly appreciate them! I hope i did the right thing by trying to save some of these eggs. IDK both males are fanning eggs and why the males choose the outside of the caves. The 2 inch pvc pipe in the back i not for spawning but for hiding places for the females. They LOVE it.

Hi,The pill bottle is not suitable as a cave that is why it is not being used correctly.The inside will be far to smooth to attach eggs to and also with you filling it half with gravel will also be why he wont use it.You will have much trouble with it.You need to remove it and give them proper caves.Also in my opinion the tank is too exposed,you need to put more cover in for them to hide in.They will love the pvc tube as it seems like the only place to hide.Pvc tubes are also no good to breed in because they too are too smooth inside and also obviously open at both ends.In my opinion you need to add a bit more wood and a few rocks etc for them to hide in and under etc.Both males will also be unhappy as they both need their own caves.The reason the eggs were all over is because they can't stick properly to a pill bottle and also because they were exposed.

Take my advice and get rid of the pill bottle,get a couple of decent caves and add more cover.


Bristlenoses

What would be a good cave to get then?

Ditto on what Bristlenoses says. Ditch the pill bottles, add lots more wood/cover, and give each male a proper cave. I usually add one or two more caves than males so they can take their pick.

Sarah

You can buy caves online or from aquatic stores made from clay like this.This is just an example.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/L046-Pleco-Breeding-Tube-Cave-10x3cm-new-size-Pack-of-3-Bristlenose-Cichlids-/111026930137?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item19d9b881d9

Mine will use these type also, though given a choice they seem to prefer the smaller square ones. Kens sells a good selection I think.

I just want to thank all of you for your assistance, i cant be more happy.

So i am checking out kens and am not sure which size to go with . The small or medium? Should i go with the square or circle?

Also what would you recommend for additional coverage other than more wood. Or is more wood the best solution. I would prefer to stay away from real plants.

Mikeyboy2222 wrote:

I just want to thank all of you for your assistance, i cant be more happy.

So i am checking out kens and am not sure which size to go with . The small or medium? Should i go with the square or circle?

Also what would you recommend for additional coverage other than more wood. Or is more wood the best solution. I would prefer to stay away from real plants.

Real plants aren't needed if you don't want them, although I do buy some duckweed once in a while for them. They eat it like candy. I like driftwood, and admittedly I am extreme. My 29 gal is piled 3/4 way up with it, because I keep both the adult breeders and the growing fry all together in it. So every piece of driftwood is that many more square inches of "floor space" for the BN to hide in, hang on, and feed off of. Plus I have three sponge filters, more square inches of space that fry esp like to rest and feed off of. The caves are on the bottom. I use bare bottom tanks, I find substrate harder to maintain in a heavily stocked tank. You have to keep a good current going to keep the bottom clean and prevent any dead spots down in the driftwood. 80% water changes every other day are the norm for that tank.

Mine all prefer the small caves, but if your males are good size I'd get only the medium (they won't know what they're missing). If you get both they will fight over the small ones, which are really awfully tight for a good size male. I like the square and the "D" shaped, because they stay put. With substrate, the round will work too, so it doesn't really matter- pick whatever you like the look of.

Kens has good prices on the driftwood too. The Mopani is prettier and heavier, the Malaysian I think they can rasp off easier. I use a mix of both. I always buy small pieces, easier to work with and less deadly if you drop or shift one on somebody.
Happy shopping!

Sarah

Ordering the Caves now the D ones 2 medium.

So if i load the tank up with driftwood, wouldnt that make them harder to catch when im ready to sell them to the LFS.

yep, it is a pain!

Sarahdd wrote:

Real plants aren't needed if you don't want them, although I do buy some duckweed once in a while for them. They eat it like candy. I like driftwood, and admittedly I am extreme. My 29 gal is piled 3/4 way up with it, because I keep both the adult breeders and the growing fry all together in it. So every piece of driftwood is that many more square inches of "floor space" for the BN to hide in, hang on, and feed off of. Plus I have three sponge filters, more square inches of space that fry esp like to rest and feed off of. The caves are on the bottom. I use bare bottom tanks, I find substrate harder to maintain in a heavily stocked tank. You have to keep a good current going to keep the bottom clean and prevent any dead spots down in the driftwood. are the norm for that tank.

Mine all prefer the small caves, but if your males are good size I'd get only the medium (they won't know what they're missing). If you get both they will fight over the small ones, which are really awfully tight for a good size male. I like the square and the "D" shaped, because they stay put. With substrate, the round will work too, so it doesn't really matter- pick whatever you like the look of.

Kens has good prices on the driftwood too. The Mopani is prettier and heavier, the Malaysian I think they can rasp off easier. I use a mix of both. I always buy small pieces, easier to work with and less deadly if you drop or shift one on somebody.
Happy shopping!

Sarah

Couple thoughts:
1. Lots of driftwood - great idea. Also, you can drill the holes in it - extra "caves". My BNs ignored the caves I made the moment I got them one large piece with many holes. They all just moved. There's lots of other hiding spots, but I don't know what's about this piece, it's like Mecca for them.
2. Good current too, BN love it, but if you keep other fish, they might need calm spots.
3. Do you call 80% water changes every other day easy maintenance? I don't think it's healthy for the fish too. Without substrate, your nitrifying bacteria don't have much to settle. Imagine what'll happen after the power is out. In my opinion, you're heading for disaster.
My 46 gal, overstocked frequently: 4xalbino Bn , fry is legion, 1xL200, 1xL168, 2xL046, 16xharlequin rasporas, 3xSAE, some shrimps. Heavily planted. Readings: ammonia=0 nitrites=0 nitrates=20. Waterchanges: 15% weekly. Sure, eheim 3e + small hob filter do the great job, but substrate gives me good filtration too = time. Here in Toronto, we had couple of blackouts already and I don't really want to risk my fish.

I personaly think 2 or 3 more pieces of wood and maybe a rock or two or whatever you fancy.Just to give them some places to hide around and feel more safe.Also it gives more area for algae to grow on etc.I don't like bare bottom tanks I always have gravel but it's whatever works for you.

The caves sound great and your bristlenoses will love you for them.Maybe at some point you could get a couple more so that they can choose what area they want.Place the caves one at each end of the tank so that the males can at least have their own territory and they will be happy.

It isn't too hard to just remove a few pieces of wood and a rock or two (or whatever you decide) when it comes to catching them.If you do get rocks make sure they are o.k for a tropical tank and don't get the wrong kind or they will change your ph etc.


Bristlenoses

[Quote]Couple thoughts:
1. Lots of driftwood - great idea. Also, you can drill the holes in it - extra "caves". My BNs ignored the caves I made the moment I got them one large piece with many holes. They all just moved. There's lots of other hiding spots, but I don't know what's about this piece, it's like Mecca for them. [Quote]

*I too have given them wood with caves drilled in it. I did have one male use it once, but once the small square caves went in it was adios to mom's handiwork!

[Quote]2. Good current too, BN love it, but if you keep other fish, they might need calm spots.[Quote]

*Mine is a species tank, it only contains BN. A breeding group and lots of fry/juveniles. It wouldn't really be an appropriate set-up for a community tank.

[Quote]3. Do you call 80% water changes every other day easy maintenance? I don't think it's healthy for the fish too. Without substrate, your nitrifying bacteria don't have much to settle. Imagine what'll happen after the power is out. In my opinion, you're heading for disaster.[Quote]

* Yes, I do consider an 80% water change both easy and VERY, VERY, good for the fish. Fish don't normally live in a closed system, inhabiting the same few gallons of water day after day.

*Lack of substrate doesn't limit nitrifying bacteria as long as you compensate. This particular tank has 3 quality reticulated sponge filters, and additional sponge in a HOB filter. Bacteria also grows on the all the extra surface area provided by the driftwood, as well as walls, tubing, etc. It has zero ammonia or nitrite. The nitrates are kept low the only practical way possible in any closed set-up, with water changes.

!!!!Heading for disaster???? My goodness! In what sense exactly?

*We have power outages all the time, I have battery powered pumps to all the sponge filters for short ones, and longer ones require the generator, since lack of heat in the winter is the main concern during an outage.

Quote :

My 46 gal, overstocked frequently: 4xalbino Bn , fry is legion, 1xL200, 1xL168, 2xL046, 16xharlequin rasporas, 3xSAE, some shrimps. Heavily planted. Readings: ammonia=0 nitrites=0 nitrates=20. Waterchanges: 15% weekly. Sure, eheim 3e + small hob filter do the great job, but substrate gives me good filtration too = time. Here in Toronto, we had couple of blackouts already and I don't really want to risk my fish.

*Risk my fish? huh?
I didn't say my fish would instantly die without the water change schedule I maintain, I just know they benefit from it. Fry grow faster and healthier, adults spawn strongly and often, and nitrates stay extremely low. In fact, my tanks would be better prepared, since they would likely have had a recent fresh change of water, thus buying me more time.

Fish also release hormones, pheromones, and other chemicals along with waste. In a normal environment they would not be constantly exposed to these for extended periods of time the way they are in an aquarium.

Filters don't remove anything, they just store it in one place. It's still present in the system, and being recirculated, until you clean it out of the filter. Some species can excrete growth inhibiting hormones when crowded, which might explain why fry grow faster and larger with frequent large water changes. Stress or fright can also be "communicated" via chemicals, quite possibly negatively affecting other fish in the tank.

At this time I have up and running;
2- 1 1/2 gal> (for incubating angelfish eggs)
2- 5 gal> w/substrate & plants & cherry shrimp
12- 10 gal >all bare bottom, most w/sponge filters only, >grow outs for angel fry, & moscow guppies, plus 1hosp/quarantine tank
1 - 15 gal> bare bottom, 1 breeding pair angels
4- 20 gal H > all bare bottom: 1 red Bn breeding colony, 2 -1 Breeding pr Angels each, 1 Angel grow out & pairing tank
3- 29 gal > all bare bottom: 1, BN breeding colony, 2, divided w/two Breeding pr Angels in each
1- 60 gal> planted w/substrate: breeding trio of Angels, 3 synodontis eupterus, 1 common plec, 3 SAE, 1 CAE, 4 zebra loaches, 6Blk Phantom tetras, a few cories.

Three of my tanks have substrate, 2 because the shrimp prefer it, 1 because it's a planted, mixed "show" tank. I have nothing against using it, I've simply learned that in most cases, a good active sponge filter and regular water changes are all the "filtration" a bare bottom tank really needs for robustly healthy fish. Yes, nitrifying bacteria does grow on substrate, but substrate also catches and holds a lot of waste, excess food, dead plant matter etc. even w/regular vacuuming, so the "extra" bacteria is to some degree merely the result of, and fed by, the extra organic waste held within the substrate.

Everybody does what works for them. IMO large frequent water changes are the single most important husbandry practice I perform.
The only reason a water change would be bad for fish is if you have bad water, or if it's been so long between changes that the parameters of the new water are vastly different than the tank water.
Otherwise, replacing even just day old aquarium water with fresh clean water is nothing but beneficial to most species.

Kaban, Obviously you view frequent large water changes as ill advised and a chore.

I keep and breed Angels, water changes are simply a way of life. You can definitely do too few, you almost can't do too many. The fish become invigorated, and often spawn immediately following a large water change, so they obviously don't find it stressful, and I don't either. I'd much rather change water and squeeze out sponges than clean canister filters, buy filter media, vacuum gravel, or deal with bacterial or algae blooms.
To each!


Sarah

Mikeyboy2222 wrote:

Ordering the Caves now the D ones 2 medium.

So if i load the tank up with driftwood, wouldnt that make them harder to catch when im ready to sell them to the LFS.

Catching baby BN is a pain no matter what

With the driftwood, you just have to take it out and put it in a bucket of tank water in case somebody's clinging/hiding on it. That's another reason to use small pieces.

There is no way to catch them with much of anything in the tank, so it's pretty much the same no matter what. You'll be cursing the heater, tubing, thermometer, and everything else you can't or don't remove.

Sarah

Sarahdd: Wow. I did not mean to offend you and I am really sorry if I did.
My opinion is based on earlier experiments, that's all. I didn't feel like elaborating about my other tanks, 46 was just an example, as it's my favorite.
I'm absolute ignorant in case of angels and I take your word for it, especially that you sound quite confident.
Also, apparently, you're well prepared - respect! All I have is 3 kW UPS.
Anyway, I hope neither of us will have chance to be proven wrong.
And it looks like we got a little off topic
I'm sorry once again!

kaban wrote:

Sarahdd: Wow. I did not mean to offend you and I am really sorry if I did.
My opinion is based on earlier experiments, that's all. I didn't feel like elaborating about my other tanks, 46 was just an example, as it's my favorite.
I'm absolute ignorant in case of angels and I take your word for it, especially that you sound quite confident.
Also, apparently, you're well prepared - respect! All I have is 3 kW UPS.
Anyway, I hope neither of us will have chance to be proven wrong.
And I looks like we got a little off topic
I'm sorry once again!

No offense taken at all and no apology needed!

I may have overreacted a bit in my response (rant?). Amen to neither of us being proved "wrong". I'm only a couple miles south of the Canadian border, and not exactly in a huge city (farmland and Amish folks mostly) so being prepared is kind of needed.

With Angelfish you learn real quick the value of water changes, and I find other fish respond just as positively. If you really want to hear about extreme water changes, talk to Discus folks! Now they're crazy!

Sarah

So i ordered 2 D shaped caves and a square so that each male can have its own territory! Thanks again for all the golden info. I am dreading the time i have to catch all these little buggers! I got to say that i am excited to get my first canister filter in the mail soon.

Hollllly cow! After just 2 hours the male is fanning and waving his tail! He choae a d shaped cave! Wow guys im so happy and so are my fish

Great News

No breeding yet. but i took the liberty to catch about 10 1 month old fry in a net and am drip acclimating them to the new tank. I guess a little each day since the DIY fish trap likes to only work catching 1 or 2 at a time